Thread: Breadknifing Queries

So a little background information on what I'm up to here. The long story short is that I recently decided to get into straight razors after obtaining some of my grandfather's old razors. However, not wanting to ruin them (going to have one of the pros around here take care of those most likely) by tinkering myself I decided I needed practice.

So I ran off to an antique store and found me some practice blades to work on. They aren't in the best condition, I know and maybe even really bad off. I figured even if they aren't salvageable (not capable of being shavers after 'restoration' by me) I can at least practice rust removal, sanding, polishing, etc.

The first patient is a Dubl Duck Special No 1 with an 11/16 blade. It has considerable rust, a chip and a crack in the blade (excluding any issue with scales, something to tackle another time).

Anyway, to the questions at hand:
- Is breadknifing this blade the solution to the chip and crack in it?
- Can a blade be breadknifed too thin?
- Does grind type limit the amount a blade can be breadknifed?
- Is it possible to make this blade usable or is the best I can hope for a polished blade with a crack in it for show?

Here are some images to give an idea of what I'm concerned about.







In the last image I try to make some marks to make it more easily described:
Measurement #1 is about 3/16.
Measurement #2 is about 8/16.

If this blade is breadknifed down to 8/16 (4/8 ... not sure what measurement to actually use for the nomenclature) would that be an issue?

No matter what, I am going to use this razor to at least try some rust removal and polishing techniques. I would like to formulate and attempt a plan to make it more than just an exercise in making metal shiny.

Originally Posted by ionthejester

Anyway, to the questions at hand:
- Is breadknifing this blade the solution to the chip and crack in it?
- Can a blade be breadknifed too thin?
- Does grind type limit the amount a blade can be breadknifed?
- Is it possible to make this blade usable or is the best I can hope for a polished blade with a crack in it for show?

If this blade is breadknifed down to 8/16 (4/8 ... not sure what measurement to actually use for the nomenclature) would that be an issue?

No matter what, I am going to use this razor to at least try some rust removal and polishing techniques. I would like to formulate and attempt a plan to make it more than just an exercise in making metal shiny.

First Welcome to SRP!

I am in no way an expert so I will just comment on what I can the pros will be here shortly to undo any harm I cause.

- Is breadknifing this blade the solution to the chip and crack in it?
In a word yes followed by resetting the bevel, the chip would be no problem that crack is pretty long though and will greatly shorten the razor

- Can a blade be breadknifed too thin?
I have seen razors go as small as 3/8 but these are too light to be used as shavers good for legs,goatees, and detail work though

- Does grind type limit the amount a blade can be breadknifed?
I would say more like the heel,tang,and spine stops you

- Is it possible to make this blade usable or is the best I can hope for a polished blade with a crack in it for show?
Again no expert here, looks like it might be done as far as a shaver but again could make a nice detail razor. Also depending were it is on the length of the razor you could just cut it off at the toe and have a short but normal width razor (if that made any sense)

Hey don't knock getting a razor shiny it takes alot of work and is skill unto its own. I suggest getting some sand paper and MAAS and get it all shiny and see were your pitting is at before you decide to try and salvage the blade as a razor. Also because you gotta buy all the hones you need to get a razor sharp.

Also try your hand at re-pinning the scales it is another inexpensive but worthwhile skill to learn.

I commend you for your wanting to learn a new craft and wish you luck on your endeavor. Let us know how it turn out.

Hmmmm!!!
Excellent advice so far… so I may have little to offer... but here goes…

When it comes to restoring blades, the crack will be one of your worst of your problems (if not the worst)… and depending on where the crack is located and its length, normally the blade is lost.

If it’s a crack, the same line will show up on the other side of the blade… if not, then may be just a rusted scratch.
If it is a crack, and judging from the photo, extends well into, what I call the “Hamburg Grind”… notice the blade gets thicker a little ways behind the edge, then gets thinner, then gets thicker again as you go towards the spine (the blade cross section like an hour glass). That thicker ridge parallels the edge and gives the edge of a hollow ground blade some stiffness, and if you have to remove all that steel past the end of the crack, you may remove most of not all the ridge, the edge may still be reasonably stiff for shaving, however you will also have a ¼ hollow ground blade with a very high bevel angle, (bevel angle should be 15 to 21 degrees), but after removing steel from the edge you may end with 18 to 25 degrees, that angle may not shave well for the razor...
Note: this is not to say that there is anything wrong with a ¼ hollow, it's the new angle that makes it appear to be a ¼ hollow, but the new angle is wrong.

I am assuming the crack is in the middle of the blade, if it were at the heel or toe then things would be better, if at the toe you could shorten the length of the blade (shorten from the average 3” to about 2&¾ or 2&½), if at the heel, you would also shorten the blade by cutting away steel from there.

Yes, for practice you may simply breadknife the chips, then restore the blade and pretend the crack is not there... and hone it and do the usual sharpness tests... maybe stropping, but I would not recommend shaving with it.

Sorry if I have not directly answered all your questions, but hopefully this will give you a start.

All of this is has been good information. The crack is a crack, I can see it on both sides. I do know that much.

I'll work off the rust first and see where I can go from there. Maybe when there's less stuff in the way it'll be easier to see and plan a definitive strategy.

Thanks.

IMHO it is toast and I wouldn't put any time into it. Find something in better condition and work on something that in the end you'll be able to use. Welcome to SRP BTW.

My 'handiman' abilities have been brought into question many times in the past. That fact that it may be toast is the reason I'm starting here. I have more that are in better condition but I want to get some practice first.

If I burn the temper on this one, no biggie since it probably is bad off. Even if it's just a lesson in polishing, rust remove, and dis-assembly / assembly it's a rather cheap and worthwhile lesson.

Yes, I lack the self-confidence that the rest of you might have. For me, this stuff is more difficult than tearing apart a computer and reassembling it. However, I think I can learn.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

IMHO it is toast and I wouldn't put any time into it. Find something in better condition and work on something that in the end you'll be able to use. Welcome to SRP BTW.

Ahhh computers... you may find tearing down and putting back a razor equally challenging... but you will learn soon.
Unlike computers, these vintage razors may never become obsolete... lolololol

But Jimmy may have a point... human nature is such that the promise of reward is a huge incentive to learn and improve... remember you may put all that work into it, but you cannot enjoy the shave.

Having said that, I believe only you can be the judge of how you want to learn... that's OK... we will always here to give a helping hand so please keep us up to date.

Ah, yes. I never thought of the 'motivational' factor. I do have others to work on that are more likely to be usable when done. I could always use this one as a test bed for various ideas... sort of test out the idea and if it works, apply it to the real project. That way I know if it's safe to do something before using the method but yet don't spend a ton of time one something that doesn't go anywhere.

This is something I'll have to think about more before I get in too deep, I suppose. Thanks for pointing that out. Now I may be able to come up with a plan that both helps me learn and motivates me to finish instead of just give up.

by the way have you been reading up on how to do rust removal polishing a razor etc? Mind telling us your plan of attack so some of the guys who do this for a business can give better strategy or helpful hints

basic stuff like what grits to start at

what type of sandpaper to use (heh wood type obviously would do a poor job)

do you know to go in opposite directions when changing to the next grit and not to go to the next grit till all the scratches from the previouse grit are removed



by the way love the sig Gir FTW!!!!

"COMPUTER take me to the weasels!!!"

IMHO that razor will never be a shaver because the crack is to long. What you would have left would be very difficult to hone.

It is a good razor to practice restoration methods/tools.
You will find it very interesting to try, and a lot of head scratching trying to figure it out!