Thread: Nickel Silver rods for pinning...

Originally Posted by Maximilian

I do like Brad and order enough rods to build a small fence.

My local Hobby Town used to have a nice inventory off all rod sizes and materials. Ever since the economy started slacking they haven't renewed any of their empty stock. Basically I was forced to order online.

Texas knife is where I get the silver nickel rods but stay away from the brass. The brass I received was of very bad quality. The NS was very good.

How great your info is!But Can you give some more sample questions and answers.I really want to get more info about this topicIt really useful for me. Thanks.
______________________

Faire simulation pret personnel en ligne | Faire calcul taux pret personnel en ligne | Demander un financement simulation credit personnel

Well, I tried the Brass tips but to no avail. Didn't do diddly squat.
Only completely discolored the brass.
On a side note I got some brass from another vendor and those are just perfect. Firm but soft and nicely start to mushroom when you peen. The others would just bend and barely mushroom.

When I was in high schoo we did an experiment in science class where we heated two sewing needles to red hot in a flame. One needle was quenched in a glass of water and the other was slowly removed from the flame and allowed to cool slowly. The needle that was quenched was very hard. If bent it snapped. But the needle that cooled slowly bended easily. It was very soft.
If you are going to heat up your brass I would suggest allowing it to cool very slowly. Maybe even to the extent of heating up a bundle of rods at the same time and then allowing them to cool.
I can't imagine why a sewing needle and a brass rod would perform differently under similar conditions.

Nathan, I believe that your suggestion would, in fact, harden brass. I don't know why, but brass is annealed by heating it to a dull red and then quenching it in water. It seem to recall reading that copper is annealed similarly to brass. Also, as mentioned, brass can also be work harden.

Max, I wonder what's up with the bad brass you got. If you're on the blade forums too, you could ask Mete (Robert Cella). I bet that he would know. It was from him that I learned about annealing brass.

I have Tim McCreight's The Complete Metalsmith around somewhere. I'll try to find it to see if it has more answers.

That's interesting that brass would react differently to other metals. It goes to show that a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous. If what you are saying is true I would have had someone harden a whole bundle of brass rods. Oops.

Well, I dug out my copy of The Complete Metalsmith. The author, Tim McCreight, mentions annealing brass, but doesn't go into great detail. He says to heat brass to a bright red, then air cool. Max, since you already have the brass, it might be worth a shot.

McCreight lists how to anneal some other metals. Notably, he says to heat copper to a dull red and then quench as soon as the redness disappears. In another part of the book he mentions that copper can't be hardened by heat, but it can be work hardened. I guess that's when you might need to anneal it (unless you were making a blade).

Chris it would be nice to see in print about the brass. You have it for copper and the other metals. Can you do that??
Edit: Chris the reason I am asking is from looking at way to many google search results they mostly say to quench. Now it is my understanding that for non-ferrous metals like copper which brass is a member of, you heat then quench. And Ferrous metals you don't quench. I would just like to get this issue solved and not hijack the OP thread.

The part about annealing brass is actually at the lower right hand corner of the page. The book has really cheesy graphics, so some parts aren't placed logically on the pages. I believe that he wrote it before the advent of the computer. I'll post the relevant part below.

I found an interesting post about brass annealing when I googled it:

I'd find out what the annealing temperature and time of yellow brass is then use the oven. Throw them in there on a baking sheet or something, turn the oven on to the required temp, leave it on for the required time, then turn it off and let the shells cool in the oven.

That's how you anneal steel. I've also annealed copper the same way and used the same process to re-heat treat aluminum after welding and machining.

I'd imagine that brass anneals somewhere in the 200º-250ºF range. That's where it happens for copper. As long as you take it to it's lowest critical temperature and hold it there for a little while, then let it cool slowly, you're annealing.

That is about the easiest way I can imagine of annealing

I do not believe it is logical to assume that various metals can all be heat treated the same just because we use them for similar purposes (in this case pins). You can try heat treating them any way you wish, but jewelers and other metal workers have been working with these materials for ages and have already figured it out. There's really no need to guess.

I searched Bladeforums and came up with the posts below. In the posts, Stacy Alpert and Mete (Robert Cella) were responding to a question about working with brass. Stacy is a professional Bladesmith and Jeweler. I have met him, and he is very knowledgeable. Mete is a retired metallurgist. I believe he worked for Timken. I put the relevant parts in bold red.

------------------------------------
GrayWall04

03-25-2007 06:49 AM

working with brass

I bought some brass to make guards with but I didn't want to be just flat so I figured I'd heat them up and work them like steel. I found out that didn't work as the brass became brittle. So I figured I'd try and work it cold. Worked better but I still broke it. What is the best way to make brass guards like suck as the big "S" shaped ones for bowies and ones with finger groves? Thanks

------------------------------------
bladsmth

03-25-2007 08:01 AM

First off, all brass is not the same. Some is made to machine and others are made to be hard. Brass (and most all non-ferrous metals) are cold work materials. You heat brass to a dull red color (just barely red) and plunge it into water. Now you can work it cold. Re-anneal as it work hardens.If you hammer brass while it is hot, it will crumble.
Stacy

------------------------------------
mete

03-25-2007 09:35 AM

The most ductile is cartridge brass ,70 Cu- 30 Zn . Annealing starts out at about 450 F. There is no need [but no danger] in quenching brass. Brass can contain from about 5 % Zn [guilding metal] to 40 % Zn [yellow brass].

------------------------------------------