Thread: Wood working help

Well, it's been a while since i've posted anything here :-P but i come now for help.

I know that the population of SRP is very DIY oriented and is filled with many craftsmen and craftswomen who work with wood. My question has nothing to do with razors though :-P

I am working on building my buddy a humidor using either cherry, mahogany, or red oak, and will be building multiple boxes using dovetails in the future. Right now i'm having a problem getting my joints to line up perfectly. I am doing them all by hand using a marples japanese style saw and a chisel. i have two questions.

1 - what can i do to improve my joinery

2 - is there a certain type of wood filler and/or glue that i can use that will not stick out when using an oil finish to bring out the natural color.


The first picture is my first set of dove tails. I did not spend much time on them just a first attempt

The second picture is my second set of dove tails done tails first. It has quite a tight fit but is not as pretty as i would like hence the question about wood filler

the Third is (you guessed it) my third attempt at dove tails done pins first. This time i took my time and went slow, but i must have marked the tails wrong after doing the pins, or i didn't cut to the waste side of my marks.

again any advice would be welcomed (except for "use a router")

Thanks guys and gals!

Making accurate dovetails by hand is no easy feat. It takes an awful lot of skill to be able to do that accurately enough for the joint to look good.

I would recommend doing some Googling to find some ideas on how to make a template, or other ways of doing it by hand. You can use a router for this, if you have one. You have the right idea though ;D

First of all it is not impossible to get good dovetails with soft wood, but it does make it harder. If you use a harder wood with straight grain you will have an easier time with it.

I make my pins and tails a little long so that I can finish with a plane to trim off the excess. It makes for very tight corners.

Saw so that your kerf is completely in the waste as you can easily use a sharp chisel to clean up the cut. If you are using harder wood you can use the dovetail saw to make the cuts up to the line, but soft wood is a bit harder to control.

If you end up wit a loose fit on a couple of the joints you can wet the wood to swell it before gluing, and that can take up the space without having to use a filler.

I have an underbed drawer that I made for my daughter's crib out of construction grade pine. The dovetails look very nice on it, but it does take more work and patience to use such low quality wood. If I think about it later I will snap a photo and post it for you.

I have a router, but I prefer to make my dovetails by hand. I like the connection with the process. It is worthwhile to learn how to do it, and you will find that it's not that difficult once you have the hang of it. I guess in that respect it's exactly like shaving with a straight.

So, if you can't shave with a straight, make beautiful things with hand cut dovetails.

Concerning your question about filler:
You can use a standard latex wood filler, but you'll need to do a test swatch with varying darknesses of filler treated with the finish you want to ensure the final color/darkness match. IIRC latex fillers will darken less than most woods, so you will want to darken the filler to a shade that is darker than the wood so that after finishing, it'll match the wood. You can darken latex filler with SMALL amounts of water based stain. If you're using an oil based filler, darken with japan color and then follow the same process.

They sell dovetail jigs to do that accurately with a router. However if you just want to do it by hand, the trick is to make them too tight and then file them to fit when you are new. Always cut on the outside of the line for the pins and the inside of the line for the tails. Mack

Trend do a very nice adjustable dovetail jig, expensive though. If you want to do it by hand, get a dovetail marking gauge, some scrap wood and practice, practice, practice.
On another note, it looks as if firstly your angles are uneven, hence the marking gauge and secondly the depth you are cutting to is uneven. Put the wood vertical on a flat surface with the other piece touching at the bottom and horizontal and mark off + about 5mm (just shy of 1/3 inch).
Hope this helps!

A couple of suggestions to answer your first question " what can i do to improve my joinery"?

First- practice practice and more practice - it takes allot of chips to develop the skill for making hand cut dovetails.

Second - start with a good layout. I prefer to layout the tails and cut them ensuring they are square on the inside surfaces. A fine saw, patience, and sharp chisel are your friends here.

Third - use the tails you have finished to lay out your pins, and use a scribe / exacto knife to mark them. Leave the line when cutting and pare / sand to a tight fit.

Like str8 shaving... it is a challenge at first.

The first step to accurate joinery is accurate (flat, square, true) dimensioning of material. Pins or tails first; there are pros and cons- the main thing is layout. Finally, of course, there is the cutting. The best way imho is to split the line- if you can follow that to the end goal your joints will fit the first time.

Machines and jigs? your dovetails will always look machine made, limiting the size and thickness of your material, the spacing. There are some that are very nice and highly adjustable and can come close to hand cut look; still not the same

Your first question is:
What can I do to improve my joinery?

Well, that has been answered but I bet you knew the answer before you asked the question. Once you know the technique, all you can do is practice, or cheat by using a machine type jig. But perfect dovetails don'y look as good as handmade with a touch of (what Toshio Odate calls)"human nuance". Don't waste too much time with pine. Get some mahagony. You can get inexpensive mahagony that is great for cutting dovetails.

Your second question:
Is there a certain type of wood filler and/or glue that i can use that will not stick out when using an oil finish to bring out the natural color?

If you practice, you won't need filler.

You have apparently cut three joints in your entire life. By the time you've cut 30 you might be able to see that you have a long way to go but by then you'll know in which direction. Frank Klaus, perhaps the world's premiere expert on the joint can cut a dovetail joint (both parts) in under two minutes. His first job was making shipping crates in Germany that were held together by dovetail joints. He has cut tens of thousands of the things.

Somewhare around here I have Ian Kirby's book, The Complete Dovetail. If you'd like it, send me a PM. I will try to dig it out and send it to you.

Brad

++1 for Brad. It just takes practise,practise,and more practise. I have been making hand cut dovetails for years,but haven't made any lately and when I have to do it again I know that I will have to practise again and again.