Thread: Workin with horn is making me crazy!!!!

I will start out saying the look of horn for scales is my absoult favorite may it be translucent buffalo horn, honey ox horn or black horn. Its easy to cut and sand and polishes beautifully and does not require a finish and feels good in your hand.
BUT...... It has to be the most tempermental natural substraight I have ever incountered. Its either delaminating or warping. Unfornaturally the only place I have found to buy horn slabs is an online source and I can not select the horn. The slabs I have been recieveing all are either delaminating or are warped or both, some more than others. I orderd 10 1/8x2x6 slabs I have so far cut and polished 6 sets of scales and a 3 out of the 6 are unuseable. And looking at the rest I see nothing but trouble. Anyone else have this problem? OOOOOH This is driving me nuts!!!! Time for a beer or ten

Ive been trying to get horn scales because I like them as well. Not easy to get While i haven't resorted to buying slabs yet I find that may be my only avenue. I'm wanting to reproduce the old styles myself.

I'm even biding on razors just for the scales

You can get rid of some of the warping by putting the horn in boiling water for a short time - enough for it to go rubbery - then quickly clamping it between two stout bits of timber or steel until cold. The rest of the warp can be removed by selective sanding before cutting the slab into scales - something coarse like a rasp helps. Soaking in neatsfoot oil overnight reduces the appearance of the delamination. I find that most delamination occurs at the inner and outer extremes and have managed to sand through most of it.

Regards,
Neil

I know exactly what you mean and it's the main issue I have been talking about many many times but apparently nobody wanted to believe me.

Once a horn slab is warped you can boil, steam and clamp as much as you want. Been there, done that. It will eventually warp again or go back to its original state of warping. Depending the condition they end up it can be a slow process or a quick one. That's one of the reasons I always warn people about the eventual future problems that might arise with horn and the proper maintenance needed to keep the horn in good condition for the longest time possible. I've seen and worked with enough of those horn slabs to know what I'm talking about.

The delaminating with some of the horn slabs, especially the blond ox can sometimes be a nightmare too. Neatsfoot oil can help. But even sanding can sometimes suddenly reveal a crack or tear on the surface and this mostly happens when you're nearly done sanding the scales. Most of the time when peening the area around the drilled holes will delaminate and reveal an underlying air bubble very slightly.

Basically it takes a very high QC, luck, patience and determination to use horn slabs. Now I do have to say I used to have horn slabs hat never gave me as many headaches and I'm sure different horn slabs from different sources can act completely different.

Originally Posted by Maximilian

I know exactly what you mean and it's the main issue I have been talking about many many times but apparently nobody wanted to believe me.

Once a horn slab is warped you can boil, steam and clamp as much as you want. Been there, done that. It will eventually warp again or go back to its original state of warping. Depending the condition they end up it can be a slow process or a quick one. That's one of the reasons I always warn people about the eventual future problems that might arise with horn and the proper maintenance needed to keep the horn in good condition for the longest time possible. I've seen and worked with enough of those horn slabs to know what I'm talking about.

The delaminating with some of the horn slabs, especially the blond ox can sometimes be a nightmare too. Neatsfoot oil can help. But even sanding can sometimes suddenly reveal a crack or tear on the surface and this mostly happens when you're nearly done sanding the scales. Most of the time when peening the area around the drilled holes will delaminate and reveal an underlying air bubble very slightly.

Basically it takes a very high QC, luck, patience and determination to use horn slabs. Now I do have to say I used to have horn slabs hat never gave me as many headaches and I'm sure different horn slabs from different sources can act completely different.

Well sounds like you have been down the exact same road I am on right now. And I dont like it. And I also tried the boing and clamping technique I swear it made it worse and my wife was not too pleased the house smelled like cow ass when i was done but the dog seemed to like it. You are correct I also believe inorder to use horn it will take a very high QC in choosing the horn slab your working with. But unfornatunally where i recieved them is a online source and they have been chooseing them for me and I have been getting crap. Thanks for listening to my rant
Tony

Same as Max, I've been talking about how poor a scale choice horn is for a looong time now. You can do whatever you want, but it WILL eventually warp. Maybe 1 year, maybe 5 years, maybe 50 years, but one day it will.

Maybe it will warp in time - but so will wood, some plastics and most celluloids. Some materials will shrink and contract, some self destruct. Vulcanite deforms, bakelite becomes brittle and discoloured. The amount of time taken becomes a bit irrelevant at the longer end of the scale - sand was mountain ranges once, after all...! An extreme comparison of course, but if nothing is detectable after 50 or more years it really makes little odds considering that if the blade is worth salvaging it can always be rescaled.

All I know is that I have plenty of old horn-scaled razors that are over a 100 years old and the scales are in great condition. Some of course aren't.

Tight QC and plate-forming technique is definitely of A1 importance, but lets not forget that all these horns were once circular, curved and or twisted before conversion - for the most part the vintage ones I have seen have not gone back to that! If there is some warp, it makes sense to choose opposing warps and take advantage of them.

Maybe the use of oils and hot oiled metal plates such as they once used helped, sealing as well as straightening the plate. Modern stuff looks dry to me - doesn't look like it has seen any oil at any stage of its transformation into plate.

I have rescued a lot of vintage warped ones with the boiling technique - so have others - it can and does work to a greater or lesser degree depending on the condition of the horn. The stuff I use is not cheap and comes from a top-quality supplier. His plates are as thick as possible, then seasoned, then resawn, not pressed - the result is a very straight plate.

It's not easy to work with, nor is it cheap - most good things in life tend to follow that rather off-putting route, I find! When it comes right it is very rewarding - I wouldn't let a few bad reviews put anyone off of it.

Regards,
neil

It is a challenge to work with. May of us do have vintage examples of where it has worked well so it is possible. As I mentioned in one of my posts I have also had issues with de-laminating and warping. Guess it part of life if this is the material you choose to work with.

Originally Posted by Maximilian

the proper maintenance needed to keep the horn in good condition for the longest time possible.

Max, I'm curious what your wisdom is on this matter?

Originally Posted by Mijbil

Max, I'm curious what your wisdom is on this matter?

It's mostly common sense. Horn's biggest enemy is humidity. Try to store it in a dryer environment as opposed to a high humid one. Try to avoid very hot water on the scales, especially when trying to rinse or clean. The less water you use the better imo. Make sure scales are always dry when stored away. Neatsfoot oil is horn's best friend. Nourish your scales every so often.