Thread: I *thought* I could tell the difference between tortoise and dyed horn...

Originally Posted by onimaru55

A question or 3 , maybe for Neil.
Altho the hot pin may be inconclusive, does real shell smell different to horn when rubbed or sanded ?
Do the dark colours on real shell fade like some of the examples above?
I thought the above pics look like blonde horn but are there pics of T/shell that look like horn ?

I have just tried the test, and the horn scales I have give off a smell much more readily than the tortoiseshell when rubbed. The tortoiseshell gave off a very faint smell, similar to horn, which smells a bit like burnt hair or nails to me. However, the surface finish of the tortoiseshell may have affected the results, and as I only have one example to try it is a bit of an unconclusive test again!

There is quite a range of color in tortoiseshell - in the past the lighter, honeyed/amber/orange was favoured and the darker type was cheaper. The light yellow type was called 'blonde' in the trade, the amber type 'demi-blonde' - the shell from the creatures belly is of the blonde/demi-blonde type with virtually no mottling, or anywhere in between. The mottled type is from the creatures back - it can be strikingly mottled with light and dark areas or almost one shade of dark brown. I have only seen the darker mottled type used for razor scales, but I suppose the pale type can look just like horn.

Because blonde shell was an expensive luxury, cowhorn was boiled in water with nitric acid added to it to render it yellow. It was then used just like that or subjected to the mottling and painting techniques.

Because it is of the same structure as cowhorn it shares the same thermoplastic nature and metal shapes could be heated and pressed into the shell - silver was used a lot, particularly in the form of small pins ('pique-work').

I suppose the only positive test would be a destructive one - the mottling in tortoiseshell goes virtually right through the material, whereas in horn it is mainly on and just below the surface which means that a section through the material (or a fair bit of sanding in the case of horn) should identify it one way or the other.

Regards,
Neil

Don’t feel bad Voidmonster, I’ve made the same mistake. It’s hard to tell them apart depending on the skill of artist like Neil said.. I keep a sample of tortoise shell for comparison.
Mike

How do you know the tortoise is tortoise? It looks exactly like most of the dyed horn I've seen!

In turtles, keratin grows in shields called scutes. Horn growth forms in a continuous sheath. Both forms will contain the distinct grain pattern of the species. Antique tortoise shell, is more brittle than antique horn and shows different crazing. It is difficult to find un-blemished tortoise shell handles. When you find authentic tortoise shell, you can see and feel the difference between shell and horn. This is why I keep a sample. I hope this helps.

MIke

That does help! The moral to the story is I need to get my hands on a piece of genuine tortoise shell.

If you like turtle soup...you can get all you like

Originally Posted by Voidmonster

How do you know the tortoise is tortoise? It looks exactly like most of the dyed horn I've seen!

The turtle will tell you what time it is.

It's one of those things where you can discuss forever but once you handle the stuff you know. Similar to Ivory, it has a unique feel to it.

The turtle stuff is really rare and high end. If I ever came upon a razor with claimed Tortoise Scales I would always view it with suspicion especially if it was WWll era or newer. The Tortoise I've seen has been with really old razors.