Thread: White celluloid?

Hey guys, So, I got a 6/8 top flight w/ white scales in yesterday to start working on soon. The problem...there is a weird smell coming from the scales. They are still mostly white with just barely any yellowing to the material and no brown stains, i didn't think scale rot at first just b/c I figured they were probably bakelite or some other plastic. The smell I can only describe as being musty, almost like a fungus type smell. I am at a loss, I wanted to possibly save these things, but with the slight yellowing (very slight), and the smell, I have quarantined the razor until I can figure out what I may be dealing with. Oh I almost forgot there are some very very very small places where it looks like the top layer of the material has peeled off/flaked off... Could this just be normal gassing of the material as it breaks down, or the start of cell rot? This blade is in excellent condition with perfect etching on the tang, so I am leery about leaving these scales on much longer.

You can get white celluloid - they still make guitar picks from it, for example. You can even get black. It all depends on the colour of the filler. If little filler is used the celluloid is transparent, and dyes are used to colour it. The smell given off by it depends on the original formulation (of which there are many), but people usually describe it as vinegar-like (celluloid acetate), camphor (present in some formulations as a preservative, so may be masking other smells) and an acidic smell followed by spontaneous ignition (cellulose nitrate - early formulation)!

A lot of the 1950s and thereabouts celluloid scales have a distinctive smell, usually of camphor (moth-balls) which is perfectly normal.

The surface crazing is sometimes seen in celluloid, but more often in other types of plastic scale. It is a sign that they are brittle, have shrunk a bit, and about to give up the ghost.

All plastics are perishable, sadly....

Regards,
Neil

I had a Burrell Top Flight before and junked the scales. I don't know what they used (seemed like some sort of plastic or resin rather than celluloid) but the black spacer had badly stained the white scales and they were horribly warped. I have seen ones on ebay in similar condition also.

Now that you mention it it does have a vinegary smell to it, never had any guitar picks smell like that, or much of anything other than sweat and beer lol. Thanks Neil, I may clean these up just for S&G's just to see what I can do with em', if I don't like it...curly bubinga, or black g10 it is.

Had a Case razor from the '50s where the scales shrunk and warped so badly that I couldn't close the blade into them. Yup, the smell was there too.

If you do get a vinegary, ammonia-like or acidic smell, unpin the blade and throw the scales. The first step in making celluloid involves soaking cotton (cellulose) in hydrochloric and (sometimes) sulphuric acid - nitrating it to produce gun-cotton, highly explosive! When celluloid breaks down it releases an acidic vapour - celluloid acetate produces the vinegar smell, the smell they noticed before a lot of the old acetate film for movies exploded. It will etch into the steel of your razor, break down to form water, and rust it.

Regards,
Neil

Well crap, that's a shame b/c the scales are straight and no damage other than the problem I said. Welp, guess I will be unpinning these and trashing them tonight, I didn't think about the old celluloid film and its ability to spontaneously combust, thanks Neil you saved me a big headache later down the road.

Okay then guess I'm looking @:
1. curly bubinga w/ nickel silver lined blue g10 wedge

2. black g10 with blue g10 wedge

3. Jade g10 w/ purple heart wedge

Any suggestions fellas?

Had the same thing happen a couple of months ago. eBay buy. Good price beautiful blade. And smelled like S..t!
Tried Baricide and it only made it worse. Sometime soon I'll try another set of scales.

You're right on the spontaneous ignition . Lived next to a film making plant growing up. The fire house was located less than 200 ft from the buildings. Seems when they 1st opened before WW2 it was a real problem!

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

If you do get a vinegary, ammonia-like or acidic smell, unpin the blade and throw the scales. The first step in making celluloid involves soaking cotton (cellulose) in hydrochloric and (sometimes) sulphuric acid - nitrating it to produce gun-cotton, highly explosive! When celluloid breaks down it releases an acidic vapour - celluloid acetate produces the vinegar smell, the smell they noticed before a lot of the old acetate film for movies exploded. It will etch into the steel of your razor, break down to form water, and rust it.

Regards,
Neil

Back in the old days tattoo stencils were cut .... engraved with a pin vise holding a 78 rpm victrola needle ..... into celluloid. A tattoo shop in Boston burned down when a bucket of stencils suffered spontaneous combustion.

If I were going to make scales of something other than a natural material it would be some form of acrylic.