Thread: 3K Bevel Set, for Novice Honers?

Experienced at honing is one aspect

However without a doubt in my mind, after attending multiple meets and having quite a few novice honers meet with me to learn, I firmly believe the biggest disconnect is from what we type here and what the new guys perceive..

The biggest mis-perception is with pressure, and how it is used
The second biggest problem I see is between Edge Restoration and Honing,, We don't emphasize the difference enough on here between setting up a New Dovo and Setting up a 200 YO W&B that was sanded and polished..

We call both a "Bevel Set" and leave it to the newbs to try and understand the difference..

Originally Posted by gssixgun

We call both a "Bevel Set" and leave it to the newbs to try and understand the difference..

This is so as not to deprive them of a challenge

I have a 1K and a 3K. Now i'll buy a 2K and i'll try all three on my next honing day to se what happens.
I think i'll going crazy!!!

And the thing is: i started with Straight razor to save money, and i never in my entire live have used so much money as now to shave my face. Cheers to all AD we have.

Why would a blade's edge crumble/chip on a 1K hone unless there was something wrong with the blade's steel?

Bob

Too much pressure at low grits.

Not intended to be a beat-up Livi thread.

Fact, Novice honers have a problem with pressure and low grit stones resulting in a chipping edge.

Would eliminating the low grit (1K) stone, solve many of the novice’s issues of pressure? A 3 or 4K stone will leave much shallower stria and fat less chipping.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Too much pressure at low grits.

Not intended to be a beat-up Livi thread.

Fact, Novice honers have a problem with pressure and low grit stones resulting in a chipping edge.

Would eliminating the low grit (1K) stone, solve many of the novice’s issues of pressure? A 3 or 4K stone will leave much shallower stria and fat less chipping.

Not meant as a beat up Livi comment.

I have used a 1k Naniwa to set a bevel on a few beat up old razors of different makes from different countries and never noticed a problem like that. When I say beat up I mean chipped edges and/or corrosion on the bevel. I am most certainly a novice at honing. Only have one razor from spanking new and that has never needed to be put on a 1K hone though.

Bob

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Would eliminating the low grit (1K) stone, solve many of the novice’s issues of pressure? A 3 or 4K stone will leave much shallower stria and fat less chipping.

That would bring to the surface the other problem that new honers have

Inconsistent strokes, the higher the grit the more laps must be done the more laps done the more chance of them screwing up one of those strokes and eliminating all the work they have done

Basically, regardless of the way they climb the ladder they have to set their feet on each rung, trying to shortcut or skip steps creates problems..

Or even more simply put "The more ya hone,, the better you hone"

Great idea Marty. Going up a k or 2 can help in certain situations. New to honing or not some blades need a different approach. Like if the bevel didn't need to be reset in the first place. And if done improperly on a 1k would only add to the problem. Same in the case of bad steel from polishing heat, bad temper or what ever.

Then there is the pressure thing. How do you describe pressure ? The best I can come up with is,,,stack 4 or 5 quarters and then place your hone on them dead center. Run your blade across the hone without tipping it and you have some light pressure. Really light use dimes :<0)
A friend told me he was advised to hold the hone with one finger under the middle and run your razor across that without knocking the hone off it. A little scary for me to pass along. I picture the broken hone thread being revived like never before.

When I first started honing I would take a razor in unknown condition and start it on the 4k. I only had 3 stones then so if it didn't improve on the 4k I knew which way to go. If it cut water all the way across and felt good I would move up to my finisher the 8k. Another good reason to stick with the basics and then move into the world of multiple choices and different finishes after you master those.

An experienced honer can thumb pad an edge and give it a look see with the Lupe and tell which hone to start out on. Running into bad steel may change that decision but it's a starting point chosen with experience. He also knows what light pressure really is.

Mike has taught me the ways of the Carborundum and Frictionite but I still start a bevel on a 1k until I run into problems. With a large pile of work on my bench I may change that routine once I get to honing them all up. ( pre bevel set ) ? Sounds like another step to add to the routine. Some things just have to be learned/relearned the hard way.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

Too much pressure at low grits.

Not intended to be a beat-up Livi thread.

Fact, Novice honers have a problem with pressure and low grit stones resulting in a chipping edge.

Would eliminating the low grit (1K) stone, solve many of the novice’s issues of pressure? A 3 or 4K stone will leave much shallower stria and fat less chipping.

I would say the pressure problem for noobs would be across the board with all hones not just 1 k.

It's a matter of horses for courses with stone choice. A 3k stone can't do what is required of a 320 grit stone & vice versa, however, with a setup like Livi's, a 320 grit would be redundant as it seem 1k is also for him.

The 3k Livi used to reset the bevel on that razor was ample for that job. The blade was new & needed minimal grinding for restoration.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

I would say the pressure problem for noobs would be across the board with all hones not just 1 k.

It's a matter of horses for courses with stone choice. A 3k stone can't do what is required of a 320 grit stone & vice versa, however, with a setup like Livi's, a 320 grit would be redundant as it seem 1k is also for him.

The 3k Livi used to reset the bevel on that razor was ample for that job. The blade was new & needed minimal grinding for restoration.

Even if a blade need not be taken down to 1K for a bevel set what harm should it do besides removing more steel than is really necessary? I still don't see why and edge should crumble but whatever.

Bob