3K Bevel Set, for Novice Honers?

In another thread, there was a video of Mastro Livi, (See Video, post 638) restoring one of his razors, a client complained would chip after honing on a Coticule.

Livi said it appeared the owner used a 1K stone to bevel set and a 1K was too coarse a stone. He recommended a minimum of 3K for bevel setting, and did so to reset the bevel after regrinding.

While a bevel can easily be set with a 3, 4 or 5k stone, I have always believed, novice honers edge problems, are a result of not fully setting the bevel, or too much pressure on low grit stones and or Diamond plates causing chipping on the edge. The issue is pressure with low grit.

So would recommending a 3 or 4K in place of bevel setting on a 1K, result in better success for novice honers? It is not many more laps over a 1K.

There is nothing wrong with using a 1k, at times with restoration I go to a 600 stone, the issue is pressure. A 3 or 4k, even with pressure will not leave as deep a stria pattern and chipped edge. It will make a keener straighter bevel set edge.

What are your thoughts? Perhaps Mr. Livi, is not just another pretty face?

It really depends on the grind and the steel of the individual razor. Some razors would be a nightmare to hone on a 3k. I can set most bevels easily with a Chosera 600 but a few will become horribly sawtoothed.

Trial and error, followed with experience, will dictate what hone will work with what razor.

Good post Marty! That's the reason I usually set the bevel profile using moderate pressure (or pre-set the bevel) with a Barber Hone (specifically the Carborundum #102 Razor Hone), and then go to the 'softer' Naniwa Superstones using very little pressure to finish the 'Set'. I'll use either the 1000, 3000, or the 5000 depending on the blade. YMMV but it works for me!

I also had problems with a livi chipping on a 1k.. The person your talking about mayb one of the best coticule honers out there and has tons of coticule experience. And knows exactly what he is doing.. I have also honed a lot of razors and by no means am i pro but the razor would not hold an edge. I sent it out to pro honers to see if it was me and the edge would just crumbled Livi took my razor back rehoned it sent it back to me and guess what the edge crumbled again.. Magnification showed chips.. Sent me a replacement razor same problem.. A 1k is a perfectly suited hone to set a bevel on.. And at the 1k stage I use a lil more pressure than I would at the higher stages.. I have honed the gold dollar on 1k with pressure no chips no crumbled edge..

Bevel setting with a 3k will make no difference imo. Whats so special about it that a smooth stone like a chosera 1k is too toothy? That video didn't pass the smell test to me. Excessive pressure? Sure, but reasonable use of a 1k should not cause chipping, something else is going on imo.

Experienced at honing is one aspect

However without a doubt in my mind, after attending multiple meets and having quite a few novice honers meet with me to learn, I firmly believe the biggest disconnect is from what we type here and what the new guys perceive..

The biggest mis-perception is with pressure, and how it is used
The second biggest problem I see is between Edge Restoration and Honing,, We don't emphasize the difference enough on here between setting up a New Dovo and Setting up a 200 YO W&B that was sanded and polished..

We call both a "Bevel Set" and leave it to the newbs to try and understand the difference..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

We call both a "Bevel Set" and leave it to the newbs to try and understand the difference..

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This is so as not to deprive them of a challenge

I have a 1K and a 3K. Now i'll buy a 2K and i'll try all three on my next honing day to se what happens.
I think i'll going crazy!!! :banghead:

And the thing is: i started with Straight razor to save money, and i never in my entire live have used so much money as now to shave my face. Cheers :beer1: to all AD we have.

Why would a blade's edge crumble/chip on a 1K hone unless there was something wrong with the blade's steel?

Bob

Too much pressure at low grits.

Not intended to be a beat-up Livi thread.

Fact, Novice honers have a problem with pressure and low grit stones resulting in a chipping edge.

Would eliminating the low grit (1K) stone, solve many of the novice’s issues of pressure? A 3 or 4K stone will leave much shallower stria and fat less chipping.