Thread: Iwasaki - breadknifing - Jim Rion - translation correction

Moved to the Advanced Honing Forum

Originally Posted by Gasman

This still means edge straight down on hone? Like trying to cut the hone? Just little strokes. Correct?

I too was/am confused as to that, but a very knowledgeable honer, with long experience told me Iwasaki means the edge and spine in contact with the hone. It does not mean 'jointing' , A.K.A. breadknifing.

Originally Posted by Gasman

This still means edge straight down on hone? Like trying to cut the hone? Just little strokes. Correct?

Not correct. Keep in mind the following two points Iwasaki described.

1. This is the final honing step.

2. It is to continue for 10 to 15 minutes.

Imagine what your final edge would be like if the blade were held in the breadknifing orientation for this final honing step.

Originally Posted by Utopian

Not correct. Keep in mind the following two points Iwasaki described.

1. This is the final honing step.

2. It is to continue for 10 to 15 minutes.

Imagine what your final edge would be like if the blade were held in the breadknifing orientation for this final honing step.

I agree 100 % with Utopian.
Given that Iwasaki was no fool it is also most likely that he did not mean 10-15 minutes but rather meant 10-15 seconds. Probably another misinterpretation.

Any time you read something always evaluate it by asking yourself and others if this seems reasonable and fits within your own experience.

Originally Posted by randydance062449

I agree 100 %

I think that brings the total maybe up to as high as 7.

I am of course joking about this number. I doubt it's that high!

I am now going back & re-reading the Iwasaki doc re the 10-15 minute statement. Back in a few minutes ....

Originally Posted by randydance062449

I am now going back & re-reading the Iwasaki doc re the 10-15 minute statement. Back in a few minutes ....

Consider this step is after removal of a microburr or "false edge" as he describes it.
It is a "slightly" rounded edge left after CrO on felt .
Also consider it is a 2 mm stroke on a razor usually in the mid to high 800's of the Vicker's scale.
Minutes may be more realistic than seconds.

Here is the relevant part regarding honing time.

3-Honing Time
Many people think that when they hone on coarse abrasives, they should spend a lot of time, then
gradually reduce their honing time as they move to finer honing. However, in reality, the opposite is
true: they should be gradually increasing the time. When you hone with pressure on coarse
particles, you not only remove chips in the edge, but also wear away the steel of the spine and
blade. Honing time for both Kamisori and razors should be divided as follows:
(1) Coarse honing - Botan Nagura - 3-4 minutes
(2) Middle honing - Tenjou Nagura - 4-5 minutes
(3) Finishing - Tomonagura - 5-6 minutes
(4) False Edge removal - Raxa hone - 10 seconds
(5) Edge Finishing - Honyama Hone - Japanese made folding razor 10 min; Kamisori/Imported
Razor/Iwasaki Razor 15 minutes.
In the above, most people might not notice that the final step, "Edge Finishing," takes 10-15
minutes. But when you try it, it will become clear.

Also remember that he is not talking about using a man made hone like the Norton 4/8 because the Norton is much, much, much more aggressive than a Japanese natural without any slurry. As we know a hard Japanese natural finishing stone used without a slurry is almost as slow as a very smooth Arkansas surgical black stone ......
.
.
and he is not talking about a razor with any sort of "smile" on the edge....
.
.
and I find it very difficult to make 1mm - 2 mm movements, how about you?

Back in a few minutes

BTW, Utopian was kind enough to give me a call and chat about this, thanks Ron

Originally Posted by randydance062449

BTW, Utopian was kind enough to give me a call and chat about this, thanks Ron

It's quite rare for me to have the opportunity to tell you why you are wrong!