Thread: Zowada Website - double bevel info. updated

Still working on single bevel. I"d like to see what this looks like under the microscope. Can someone take pictures?

- Bob.

Originally Posted by RobertFontaine

Still working on single bevel. I"d like to see what this looks like under the microscope. Can someone take pictures?

- Bob.

under my crappy pocket 'scope, it actually looked like a rolled edge (shiny strip right along the edge, maybe 1/12th the width of the bevel?) but shaved quite well.

that's only at 100x, i'm sure a better microscope would reveal more detail

Originally Posted by RobertFontaine

Still working on single bevel. I"d like to see what this looks like under the microscope. Can someone take pictures?

- Bob.

Bob ... see Tim's site above or here http://www.tzknives.com/twobevel.html
theres a good pic of what you should expect to see ..

hope this helps

Garry

Garry,

I don't mean to be contrary, but that's not what those photos are. They show the regular honing bevel relative to the un-etched Damascus on the main grind of the razor.

You need at least 200x just to see the micro bevel we're talking about here. Taking good pictures is difficult due to the reflections and depth of field at the high magnification.

You can see some edge close-ups here:

http://www.tzknives.com/razoredges.html

The page is a comparison of stones and the finish they give to the cutting edge. There aren't any double bevel photos here either.

I'm doing some experimenting with the compound step. I'll be posting photos that show the Chromium Oxide finish on the double bevels someday...

I'll be bringing my microscope to Lynn's "shindig" for those who want to play.

Tim Z.

Originally Posted by Garry

Bob ... see Tim's site above or here http://www.tzknives.com/twobevel.html
theres a good pic of what you should expect to see ..

hope this helps

Garry

Now why would a double bevel shave smoother? Hmmm....

I have noticed that my biggest problem with technique is when I forget to SCRAPE and start trying to slice.

Consider a plane that goes through the razor from the center of the spine right through the edge. If that plane moves straight down my face in the direction of my face, I get a smooth shave.

If at any time the razor starts to move in the direction of that plane, it will slice into my face.

Perhaps the higher angle makes it easier to scrape? Could it be technique dependent?

Or maybe removing such a tiny amount of metal just makes the extremely slow-cutting finishing hone more effective?

Maybe the lower angle of the traditional straight is a compromise because making it thicker to increase the angle would be adding a lot of metal or throwing off the balance? But then we aren't talking a big difference here if it can be accomplished with tape.

I suspect that much of the time our honing is making an edge so thin that a slight defect in technique causes it to degrade, and increasing the angle slightly makes a more robust edge and lowers the risk of damaging the actual edge because less honing is needed.

Just ruminations. Gotta go home and try it.

Paul

Originally Posted by toolarts

Now why would a double bevel shave smoother? Hmmm....

It is about the complete removal of the scratch pattern of the grit before it. Most of the time, some of the lower grit scratches will make it through to the shaving edge if the razor is honed in the traditional manner; the double bevel method reduces this "problem" because you are creating a completely new (steeper) bevel angle . FWIW cartridge razor manufacturers use a multiple bevel honing process to produce their razors for this reason. With that said I have had mixed results with this honing systerm, it seems to work very well on some razors, but the traditional method works better for others.

Interesting stuff. I really wondered about double bevels and razors when I first found SRP; I was left going like this when I know somewhere, pre-crash someone had said double bevel and a straight razor = bad.

Woodworkers have been using double bevels on chisels and plane irons for who knows how long to produce wood shavings so thin you can read through them, so I thought Why wouldn't/shouldn't a double bevel work on a straight razor????

I'm glad to see there's is talk about this and I'd like it if someone for whatever reason has a negative opinion on double bevels and razors to share their views. I myself have NOT tried a double bevel yet, but I will.

Thanks for the info, Tim.

Originally Posted by Chrisl

I'm glad to see there's is talk about this and I'd like it if someone for whatever reason has a negative opinion on double bevels and razors to share their views. I myself have NOT tried a double bevel yet, but I will.

Thanks for the info, Tim.

I have experimented with this method on a lot of different razors and have found that it produces really good results on most razors in significantly less time than my "traditional" natural stone progressions. On the other hand, assuming you can completely polish the lower grit scratch patterns away on the single bevel method, I think that your edge will be a little bit sharper because the inclusive bevel angle will be a little bit shallower. I also would rather touch up without or with just one piece of tape than to have to use two or three pieces so my razors are honed with a single bevel (most without tape, a few with tape).

Tim, did you use the factory finish on the UF to
give the edge that you photographed, or had you
lapped the stone previously? If so, how did you
lap it?

I've been curious

- Scott

My latest Ebay addition, a shiny Clauss arrived today.

It had the original bevel but two really nasty 1/2 bevel chipped out areas.

So, I 325'd it until the chips were gone, then 600 then 1200 all DMT.

Then, I put two layers of tape on the spine and did about 40 stokes on the Norton 8K. Then about 40 strokes on the yellow coticule.

With 60 strokes on my Tony Miller Latigo, the entire process took less than 40 minutes--I'm thinking more like 1/2 hour.

Shaved. Whoa there Betsy, this sucker is frickin' sharp. BBS on my mustachios shaved only WTG. And a couple of bleeders. Not cuts, just unexplained bloody spots.

The razor wiped the whiskers off my chin, it was quite amazing, but I also have more redness now than I had with other razors I have honed.

I remember someone else described their experience with a Feather or one of those disposable blade razors, and this experience rings a bell. Unfortunately I think that posting got lost in the database failure.

Anyway, this sure works great on restorations with wide bevels.

The only problem I see with this is if I sell this razor to someone, it will be cool until it starts to need honing, and then a barber hone probably won't help unless they guy knows to tape the spine first.

Other than that, this is pretty awesome.