Thread: "Shapton Glass" In Search of the Perfect Edge

Originally Posted by zepplin

Once my bevel is established, the next progression of stones is to polish the scratch marks on the bevel and tweak the edge. - and I accomplish that by progressing from 4K to 8K and finish with the 16K. IMO, the 8K DMT is not a polisher in any way and I wouldn't be using it in my polishing formula.

Steve

I don't have any Shapton stones but I do have an D8EE and I'd respectfully disagree with the fact that it isn't a polisher to the same level as any other 8K. The scratch patterns are similar (at 100x mag) to the 8K Norton I have, it cuts much faster so perhaps you need to do less laps on the 4K before progressing to the D8EE. Either that or you've not broken it in fully. I used it to lap my Norton 8K for a bit, this made a major difference to the feel of the razor passing over the D8EE.

Barney

Originally Posted by barneycg

I don't have any Shapton stones but I do have an D8EE and I'd respectfully disagree with the fact that it isn't a polisher to the same level as any other 8K. The scratch patterns are similar (at 100x mag) to the 8K Norton I have, it cuts much faster so perhaps you need to do less laps on the 4K before progressing to the D8EE. Either that or you've not broken it in fully. I used it to lap my Norton 8K for a bit, this made a major difference to the feel of the razor passing over the D8EE.

Barney

Barney:

I no longer own Norton stones and I've never owned the D8EE. Although your report the scratch pattern is the same or similar between the Norton 8000 and the D8EE, I'd really be curious to see if edges honed on each would exhibit the same shaving comfort. For no reason other than being curious. Granted, most of us don't shave off an 8000 grit stone, but some do and certainly it can be done. I wonder if there would be a difference?

Chris L

Originally Posted by Chrisl

Barney:

I no longer own Norton stones and I've never owned the D8EE. Although your report the scratch pattern is the same or similar between the Norton 8000 and the D8EE, I'd really be curious to see if edges honed on each would exhibit the same shaving comfort. For no reason other than being curious. Granted, most of us don't shave off an 8000 grit stone, but some do and certainly it can be done. I wonder if there would be a difference?

Chris L

I can do some tests if you want the main problem is that while I can shave with the edges I put on I wouldn't say that they are the best possible edge - if you know what I mean. The one thing I can say is that I never managed to get a razor to pass the HHT off the Norton 8K but I can off the D8EE - though that may also be due to me also switching to single handed honing.

Barney

My experience with the D8EE is that it leaves 8k sized scratches but they are deeper than the scratches from a norton or natural stone.

I generally only use the D8EE for prepping razors that needed a bevel resetting or a complete restoration because it isn't a polishing hone. What it is, is a powerfully consistent hone that reduces 1k and lower grit scratches to nothing in a matter of 5 to 10 passes, leaving a great edge for the polishing stones.

I would bet that the D8EE to 16k progression would be just fine, I go from the D8EE to a coticule or thuringian frequently with no problem and, as I understand it, the shaptons are much faster cutters. But then again I have no hands on experience with the 16k (yet).



OH, anyone with a D8EE should try lapping another stone on it, like a shapton, a barber hone, or whatever you have. It will smooth out the grit in the D8EE quite a bit, thus rendering it a little less aggressive while still providing a very nice cutting surface.

Update just took one of my razors and did 5 4K laps and then 15 8K laps on my Combi Norton (I tried to make sure that the D8EE pattern was gone). After this I'd have to revise my original statement at 100x mag the Norton definatly has a smoother finish when compared to a, different, razor that has an D8EE scratch pattern on it. I'd agree completely with Russels comment about the pattern being similar but the scratch depth is deeper off the DMT.

The razor off the Norton fails the HHT.

Normally I'd do some laps on a Chromium Oxide pasted flatbed strop but I'll not do this step in the interests of science.

Stropped 50 laps on cotton and then 60 laps on leather - razor passed HHT and is cutting arm hairs with blade not touching skin.

After a single WTG pass on a two day growth (my normal routine) I'd say its comfort level was about 75% and closeness was also about 75% of my daily shave (different razor though) - Cheeks were ok but the top lip and chin felt a little scraped afterwards.

Interesting for me is I'm now wondering how much effect the Chromium Oxide is having.

I'll give it two days and re-hone with the DMT D8EE and see how that goes.

Barney

Ok! Here we go. I am pretty new to all this. My present system of doing things is the
1.DMT8EE to get a bevel
2.I go to the pastes 1.0,0.5,and 0.25.

Now comes the confusing part to me. If I go to the Shapton 16k it is 0.92 micron. I am thinking I would have to then go to the 30K which is 0.49 micron. Since I have limited experience, in honing or for that matter shaving with anything other than what comes off a 0.25 diamond strop, I am wondering how it is to shave coming off a stone that gives one a 0.92 micron edge? Does one use Chromium off the 16K? I know that it is different using stones verses pastes and I am looking for the next step that, as a perfectionist, was bound to happen.


Thanks,
Richard

ok you guys,got me interested in the shaptons, i need to know could i set bevels on a decent razor with a 2k shapton, or do i need to get the 1k, i would like to buy the 2k, 4k and the 6k to start, i have a fine scottish antique hone i got a couple of weeks ago, and my razors shave better than ever, no problem with atg passes anymore. i probably will get the 16 k as well

Originally Posted by drfred

I have the 4K, 8K, and the 16K, lapped them all with some 600 grit wet or dry. No problems at all, as a matter of fact, they took very little lapping.

Fred

With all the stories about how difficult the spyderco ceramic stones are to hone, does this mean that the ceramic shaptons are much softer?

Originally Posted by jwoods

ok you guys,got me interested in the shaptons, i need to know could i set bevels on a decent razor with a 2k shapton, or do i need to get the 1k, i would like to buy the 2k, 4k and the 6k to start, i have a fine scottish antique hone i got a couple of weeks ago, and my razors shave better than ever, no problem with atg passes anymore. i probably will get the 16 k as well

Early on in my Shapton experiences I bought the Shapton 500 & 1000 grit ceramic on glass stones. More recently I purchased the 2000 grit. I've found little use for the 500 grit and would not recommend it; only because I think it's unnecessary for all but razors in horrid condition. The 1000 grit works great for setting bevels.

Now.....between the 1000 & 2000. Personally I like the 2000 better. It's a fast cutter does great bevel setting work (I can have edges pass the HHT off the 2000 grit stone) and preps the bevel that much quicker for the 4000 on up. Unless someone was really looking for a hog of a metal eater stone to work on seriously pitted edges, etc, for most razors I think the 2000 stone is a great stone.

Chris L

Well did my second test shave from just an 8k stone, this time it was the DMT D8EE. I followed the same process as before but replaced the Norton 8K with the DMT D8EE. Off the DMT the razor was passing the HHT unlike with the Norton and after the shave test, the result is very close but for both comfort and closeness I'd actually say the edge off the DMT was slightly better.

Disclaimer here is that this is my personal findings and as ever YMMV, you should always use what works best for you. As to whether or not the DMT D8EE should be used with a Shaptop 16K I'll leave that up to others to determine ... me I'm pleased as punch with my DMT D8EE and I wouldn't hesitate to add the 16K Shapton to my lineup for final polishing (one day maybe when I'm feeling flush)

Barney