Thread: "Shapton Glass" In Search of the Perfect Edge

If one got into the Shapton Glass hones, would a GDLP be necessary? That is a lot of cash to drop on one stone. Can anything else be used to lap them? I have been seriously looking at the 16K stone,

Fred

Originally Posted by drfred

If one got into the Shapton Glass hones, would a GDLP be necessary? That is a lot of cash to drop on one stone. Can anything else be used to lap them? I have been seriously looking at the 16K stone,

Fred

Good question, Fred. That 16K ceramic is awfully hard. Could it be lapped with wet/dry sandpaper on a flat surface? I really couldn't say. Certainly the DMT D8C could handle it no problem and is much less expensive than the GDLP. By "no problem" I mean it could do the job, but using only the weight of the light 16K, it still takes quite a bit of time. Unless you're a HAD nut that chooses to embark on an admittedly trivial pursuit like desiring .5 micron flat over .001" flat between the GDLP and the DMT D8C like I did, don't worry about needing the GDLP, go for the D8C and be more than satisfied I'm sure.

Chris L

Originally Posted by Chrisl

Unless you're a HAD nut that chooses to embark on an admittedly trivial pursuit like desiring .5 micron flat over .001" flat between the GDLP and the DMT D8C like I did, don't worry about needing the GDLP, go for the D8C and be more than satisfied I'm sure.

Chris L

Sorry, I just have to poke a HAD nut with a sharp stick to see what happens.

We have not established that the DMT WILL have a variance of 0.0010" but rather that the manufacturer has stated it will NOT exceed 0.0010" ! It is very likely that a significant number of those DMT hones will fall within the Max allowable 0.0005" specified by Shapton, just as I'm sure a good portion of the Shaptons will actually be slightly better than the maximum allowable by their specifications.

In the end, you pays your money and you takes your choice. The lone advantage I can see is the pattern in the surface of the Shapton... it would allow for water/slurry to escape more quickly and perhaps flatten the hone somewhat quicker but I don't see it how it could make all that much a difference. One thing I know for sure, I'd rather drop a D8C on the basement floor than the Shapton GDLP!

I for one would stick with a D8C and spend the saved cash on more hones.... not that I have HAD.


Regards

Kaptain "Bell curve, anyone?" Zero

The GDLP is so darn expensive I"m likely to buy a 30k before I go with that.

But I am going to try a granite surface plate.

I have been using mine a lot lately........like 500-600 razors so far and really like these stones. I had a Shapton Pro 15 and didn't like it at all, but the glass 16 is Wowza. I tend to use the 4K and 8K the most followed by the Escher, but that is because I have simply had a ton of success with these. The 16 though is very consistent. I won't be buying the 30K either, but it is tempting......lol.

I am going to buy a back up 4K and 8K..........

These stones have been superior for results and consistency.

Have fun.

Lynn

Originally Posted by Chrisl

Good question, Fred. That 16K ceramic is awfully hard. Could it be lapped with wet/dry sandpaper on a flat surface? I really couldn't say. Certainly the DMT D8C could handle it no problem and is much less expensive than the GDLP. By "no problem" I mean it could do the job, but using only the weight of the light 16K, it still takes quite a bit of time. Unless you're a HAD nut that chooses to embark on an admittedly trivial pursuit like desiring .5 micron flat over .001" flat between the GDLP and the DMT D8C like I did, don't worry about needing the GDLP, go for the D8C and be more than satisfied I'm sure.

Chris L

Yes, it can be lapped with wet/dry on a flat surface, most definitely.

James.

Originally Posted by RobertFontaine

The GDLP is so darn expensive I"m likely to buy a 30k before I go with that.

But I am going to try a granite surface plate.

Well, I'm assuming you are going to pick up one from Lee Valley for $35, but I don't really see why you wouldn't spend maybe $65 instead and get a DMT D8C from Howard. That chunk of granite is HEAVY and kinda ugly to lug around... and you'll still have to buy wet/dry paper to stick on top. The paper, while accurately made, is not going to meet the 0.0001" standard of the surface plate itself and the adhesive or even just a layer of water will add to that inaccuracy. Now, if you are going to use it for measuring and or layouts then by all means, get one. For flattening hones..... I don't see it to be a good investment.

And just to clarify (for those who might not know), a surface plate is not the same as a lapping plate. Surface plates are meant for measuring and layout, lapping plates are for lapping using loose grit of one form or another.

Regards

Christian

The big chunk of granite is dual purpose.

I will use the chunk of granite to put my .5 micron chromium and .3 micron 3M aluminum oxide sheets.

A flat surface seems a handy thing to have.

-Bob

Originally Posted by kaptain_zero

Sorry, I just have to poke a HAD nut with a sharp stick to see what happens.

We have not established that the DMT WILL have a variance of 0.0010" but rather that the manufacturer has stated it will NOT exceed 0.0010" ! It is very likely that a significant number of those DMT hones will fall within the Max allowable 0.0005" specified by Shapton, just as I'm sure a good portion of the Shaptons will actually be slightly better than the maximum allowable by their specifications.

In the end, you pays your money and you takes your choice. The lone advantage I can see is the pattern in the surface of the Shapton... it would allow for water/slurry to escape more quickly and perhaps flatten the hone somewhat quicker but I don't see it how it could make all that much a difference. One thing I know for sure, I'd rather drop a D8C on the basement floor than the Shapton GDLP!

I for one would stick with a D8C and spend the saved cash on more hones.... not that I have HAD.


Regards

Kaptain "Bell curve, anyone?" Zero

Hey, quit poking me!

I agree with you, the DMT D8Cs on average could very well be flatter than .001". I actually took the one I had to a local active machinist with decades of experience. He thought my interest in checking out the flatness of that lapping plate was interesting enough to throw caution and in the end one of his older but accurate dial indicators to the wind (D8C ate it up in the testing process of course). Mine was within the .001" tolerance and the flatness varied across the surface of the plate but stayed within that range.

Agreed also that the GDLPs on average could step outside the .5 micron flat claim. I do like mine for the recessed surfaces as it really helps during lapping. Even with the recessed surfaces, toward the end of the lapping process I can life the GDLP and the stone held by it in the air for about 3 seconds. Impressive in my book.

Originally Posted by Lynn

I have been using mine a lot lately........like 500-600 razors so far and really like these stones. I had a Shapton Pro 15 and didn't like it at all, but the glass 16 is Wowza. I tend to use the 4K and 8K the most followed by the Escher, but that is because I have simply had a ton of success with these. The 16 though is very consistent. I won't be buying the 30K either, but it is tempting......lol.

I am going to buy a back up 4K and 8K..........

These stones have been superior for results and consistency.

Have fun.

Lynn

Lynn, when you say you use the 4K and the 8K most, are you referring to the Norton or the Shapton ceramic stones? Did you mean you're going to buy a backup Norton or Shaptons?

Thanks guys.

Chris L

Originally Posted by Lynn

I have been using mine a lot lately........like 500-600 razors so far and really like these stones. I had a Shapton Pro 15 and didn't like it at all, but the glass 16 is Wowza.

Lynn

Snap, I have been on the fence lately about whether I need one, but Lynn, you sold me