Thread: Calling the few Shapton 30K owners....

The Shapton 30K taunts me. I know it's probably overkill, but I won't be able to resist forever.

I was touching a few razors up on my Shapton 16k tonight (love that stone) and one of them prior to any touching up had a barely perceptible wire edge. Edge leading was a bit slow so I backhoned it off in about 10 passes (the wire edge was NOT from the 16K. I received the razor for free and had not honed it myself).

That got me thinking....have you guys that own the 30K tried just backhoning with that stone like you would stropping or on newspaper? Since the Shapton ceramics don't seem to friable and don't create a slurry, I could hardly think a 30K could create a wire edge (some time ago in PMs, both Lynn and Dr. Moss told me that they've never got wire edges off the 30K and Dr. Moss didn't think it would be practically of not impossible with the weight of the blade only).

BJ? Anyone else try spine leading? If not, can you try it as an experiment and tell us if you notice any difference?

Thanks.

Chris L

Give in and buy a 30K. Then buy a Nakayama to compare. Then sell the 30K

Chris, based on Dr. Moss's comments, I don't think I'd spend the $$$ on the 30k.

"This is quite intriguing, as Spyderco are on record as saying their fine and ultrafine hones are made from the same ceramic mix, and it is the surface pattern machined into them that gives the effective grit - there is a video on the web of a Spyderco rep describing the UF as 2000 mesh!. So my UF had a rather obvious pattern on the surface and it's now gone. I don't know what grit it is now equivalent to, but it seems to give a finer edge than the 30k Shapton. I assume the limiting factor here is either the particles size in the ceramic, or the scratch size made by the DGLP, whichever is the larger. "

That quote was taken from this thread on SMF.

For the record, I just traded off my UF.... I was not happy with it, it gave a fine finish but it just did not give me the feedback I needed unlike the natural hones such as the blue and yellow coticules. I finish on a home made Chromium Oxide pasted bench strop and it leaves very little to be desired in shaving performance except that it seems to need refreshing too often. I'm not sure if it's the steel or if it's my face..... the search for that answer continues.

Regards

Christian

I am awaiting my 30k.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Give in and buy a 30K. Then buy a Nakayama to compare. Then sell the 30K

+1


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That's a big plus one.

Why would a nakayama be preferable to a 30k shapton?

Originally Posted by RobertFontaine

Why would a nakayama be preferable to a 30k shapton?

Basing this on Shapton Professional 30k versus my approx 3" x 5" Nakayama Maruichi...

1. Nakayamas are cheaper than shaptons
2. Nakayamas are harder (I prefer this, as do many others)
3. Nakayamas are more versatile (slurry, no slurry, dry)
4. Nakayamas smell nice
5. Nakayamas are each unique and one of a kind.

On the other hand...
6. A Nakayama of the same size as a Shapton would be very expensive and hard to find. (not that you need a 8" x 3"
7. Shaptons are easier to find/get (from what I can tell anyways)

Originally Posted by Bruno

Give in and buy a 30K. Then buy a Nakayama to compare. Then sell the 30K

What a great statement!

When I started reading Chris' opening, I was thinking, "No, no, buy a Nakayama....."

Then I read the rest of the posts. Yea, I just started using the Nakayama. I follow up from the 16K Shapton Ceramic Glass and finish with the Nakayama. I cannot believe it could ever get any better, unless maybe Jennifer Alba was there in the bathroom helping me lather. (hummmm!)

I know I'm gonna become a broken record about how great these Nakayama's are, but it is really true!

My Nkayama is about 7-3/4 x 1-3/4 x 3/4, - Perfect for me.

The edges this stone has produced are almost undiscribable.

Steve

My Nakayama is 7.1x2.55" or slightly bigger (can't remember exactly) and it is more expensive than a 30K shapton. Trust me on this one

The edges I get from it are sooooo good. I have 2 razors that were very hard to hone. I never could put a good edge on them. One has steel that is too hard I think (to the point of becoming britle) and the other had a very weird shape (my John barber).

I have honed them several times with various stones and got ok shaves, but not great.
Now using the nakayama to finish, they are the best shavers I've ever shaved with (together with one other that I finished on the coticule).

The really nice thing about Nakayamas is that you can't overhone on them.
If a razor passes the thumb nail test, I do 100 laps with light slurry on my narutaki hone, then 100 laps with light slurry on my nakayama hone, and I am ready. No special tests needed to see when it is ready. Just shave test and put it away.

That's what's keeping me from the shaptons for now: what I heard was that it is very easy to overhone on ceramic high grit stones like the shaptons.
My Nakayama is so good that I can't see myself using the coticule anymore in the near future. Maybe I can use it instead of the Narutaki stone. I'll do some more experimenting but all razors will be finished on my nakayama from now on.

Apart from that, the fact that they are naturals, look gorgeous (admittedly, you have to like the look of rough rock) and are all unique makes it an added bonus to use them.

Where would one find a Nakayama 30k?? I've heard good reviews about the edges they produce!

Thanks

Rick