Thread: Why is the 1st shave after honing so disagreeable?

Hey Bart,

Barber hones can be used wet or dry. They're a little more forgiving of mediocre technique when wet. Dry takes a VERY light touch, but I think you get a better result.

The convex edge does work for me, but the down side is, at the end of the month, I have a lot of honing to do to get the bevel back, and then a few bad shaves to endure before that nasty new bevel smooths out.

BTW, now that my face has completely dried I can feel that the double-stropping on the plain leather didn't help as much as I thought. Damn. Back to the drawing board.

I haven't tried increasing the # of laps on the Cr02, though. Yes, I have the loom strop set up pretty tight.

you asked about the microscope, the radio shack mini is hard to beat for 10 bucks

how does the edge feel after the hone?

Here is a link to a scope almost the same as I use
30X ILLUMINATED LED HAND HELD MICROSCOPE MAGNIFIER - eBay (item 350085423291 end time Aug-05-08 18:41:32 PDT)

It is better than the radio shack because it has a larger field of view and better resolution. It tells me everything I need to know.

You do not need 60x-100x to remove nicks, establish bevels and watch for wire edges.

Hope this helps,

Several years ago I purchased the following hone from the American Hone Company:

1. A Swaty
2. Moravian
3. Super Punjab
4. Fricionite

I would be interested in opinions of these hones and how they are used.

The Moravian is my favorite - It works great on my Dubl Duck Wonderedge.

Thx for the tip on the microscope, Randy. Do you need 30X? There are 20X jeweler's loupes out there that are nice & pocket-size.

This canvas strop is the strop from hell.I soaked it all night in laundry detergent and water, & scrubbed with a scrub brush. A ton of crap came out of it, but it's still dingy brown, stiff, and one side has visible traces of what looks like jeweler's rouge.

Should I repeat this procedure a few more times? Use bleach?

I'm a honer, not a hone meister and my experience and knowledge is limited. However.... It sounds like an awful lot of wear happening to your razor. This convex bevel thing, stropping lots on the pastes sound very odd to me and if you have to take it to 1k each time, then thats quite a bit of metal removal happening every month. I am not familiar with your hone line up either, but I think the problem lies somewhere between the hones, pastes and probably technique.

Have you thought about a different line up of hones? Such as the nortons, they sound like very good quality and suitable for most budgets.

Just my thoughts.

Yeah, Thanks for the heads up on that 30 power scope. I'm not 100% sure what higher resolution of microscopes means, but I think it has to do with a larger mirror. I mostly use mine at 60, but at 100 there are some clear views of the invisible. a major drawback of the RS MM is the small view so a larger view sounds like a nice feature.

An important question: what does a wire edge look like? I've had a few problems that sound symptomatic of over honed / wire edge but never saw it in the scope.

I would also like to submit the idea that you do not get a better edge dry. Without a little water or lather on the hone you end up going over the swarf deposited on the hone. It almost sounds like you consider its use a mark against your skill.

The more I think about it I've had a similar problem with my mini geewiz. being the nearest mint razor I have, I tended to hone it a little less than it probably needed. However after considerable use on my mini-card cro strop it eventually yielded the best save I ever gave, but soon after disintegrated.

Another thought- are you holding the hone in your hand? I've never found any particular advantage to this. I certainly know how to lock my body into a solid stance, but with the hone on the bench accuracy of stroke is far superior imho. a hand held hone could certainly introduce some inconsistency allowing previous scratches to be left behind.

Originally Posted by Johnny J

Thx for the tip on the microscope, Randy. Do you need 30X? There are 20X jeweler's loupes out there that are nice & pocket-size.

This canvas strop is the strop from hell.I soaked it all night in laundry detergent and water, & scrubbed with a scrub brush. A ton of crap came out of it, but it's still dingy brown, stiff, and one side has visible traces of what looks like jeweler's rouge.

Should I repeat this procedure a few more times? Use bleach?

So far I have only used the 30X and the Radio Shack 60x-100x so I cannot comment on anything else. Sorry. You need to be able to see microniks in the edge, scratch lines from the hones, 2 colors if there are 2 bevels, and the telltale rust/brown/gold spots or lines of a wire edge. The resolution (clarity, focus) needs to be adequate and thats where the RS scope falls down IMHO.

Linen strops are a pain to clean. It depends on just how clean you want them. A few years ago I tried to clean some of them and ended up throwing them in the washing machine. I soaked them first in soapy water. They came out very clean but very limp, just like a cotton towel. Whatever had been used to impregnate the linen was now gone.
Puffah posted the process that he and his father used to re-treat the linens. Essentially melt some parrafin wax then mix with turpentine and work the mix in to the linen if I recall correctly. Look up Puffahs posts for a better description.

Originally Posted by kevint

Yeah, Thanks for the heads up on that 30 power scope. I'm not 100% sure what higher resolution of microscopes means, but I think it has to do with a larger mirror. I mostly use mine at 60, but at 100 there are some clear views of the invisible. a major drawback of the RS MM is the small view so a larger view sounds like a nice feature.

An important question: what does a wire edge look like? I've had a few problems that sound symptomatic of over honed / wire edge but never saw it in the scope.
A wire edge is an edge that has become to thin. It is so thin that it bends when it tries to cut a whisker so it either skips over the whisker if it bends one way or digs into the skin if it flexes the other way and gives an acute angle. In a scope this will appear as a different color along some part of the very edge but not for the full length of the edge. As the edge becomes progressively thinner the edge will bend more, in spots, and appear as a rust/gold/browning color along the edge, again, in spots. Still thinner and the edge disintegrates in spots and appears as a micronick.


I would also like to submit the idea that you do not get a better edge dry. Without a little water or lather on the hone you end up going over the swarf deposited on the hone. It almost sounds like you consider its use a mark against your skill.
The jury is still deliberating on the wet/ry honing issue. Not enough of us have tried it on a sufficient number of razors to say one way or the other. Based on some of the comments here I have just begun to experiment with this.

The more I think about it I've had a similar problem with my mini geewiz. being the nearest mint razor I have, I tended to hone it a little less than it probably needed. However after considerable use on my mini-card cro strop it eventually yielded the best save I ever gave, but soon after disintegrated. Ya, it is now either rounded or over honed.

Another thought- are you holding the hone in your hand? I've never found any particular advantage to this. I certainly know how to lock my body into a solid stance, but with the hone on the bench accuracy of stroke is far superior imho. a hand held hone could certainly introduce some inconsistency allowing previous scratches to be left behind.

I use both methods. With practice they both work.

I can see microchips, secondary bevels, scratch marks, etc... with a high quality 15x loupe. I would imagine that a good 20x would do the job but my hesitation would be that your focal length with the 20x loupe would be very short (you have to get very close to the razor) and you have a very small field of view. I would suggest a regular scope for any serious or repetitious work but for infrequent use, the loupe might be enough.