Thanks Chris and glen

Chris I'm honing on the 16K with the sharp edge forward as I would do normally on the 4K 8K Norton (should I be honing with the spine first as in stropping on the 16K ??)

I received a couple of new razors today from classic and i honed them up - when I got to the 16K I used the angle you suggested and it is better as well as very light pressure barely more than the weight of the razor and that also helped but there still is a slight coarseness / harshness to the friction. Not as in honey and not as smooth as the 8K.

It was almost as if the sharp edge was trying to dig into the surface, without digging in. if that makes sense.

I shaved with one of the new razors afterwards and it was OK but only OK. but still better than my first attempts.

any other suggestions

many thanks

Jon