Thread: Edge Deterioration

Well, I'm not sure I can accuratly answer your question since the edge on my blades goes back to my noobie days around 8 months ago and probably gets better with the newer blades I added. Using mostly a different blade each day I may have used each about three times w/ too many different blades in between to remember the experiance with that blade the last time.

What I can say is that the different types of carbon steel will break down at different rates and the finer the edge, the faster it breaks down. Storage also plays a role in the rate of deterioration. Storing a blade in a container tht will not allow for air flow and/or absorbe mositure will have a faster oxidation than open air flow or absorbant material. That said, I purchased 5 straights 15 or 20 years ago at a local auction. The blades were in really fins shape with no rust or tarnish. I tried to figure out the straight razor stick nut with no internet or SRP to help me I didn't get too far. I put the blades in a paper covered wood cigar box and stashed it in a draw. Aout 8 months ago I dug them out when my son started shaving. They looked like they did when I put them away 20 years ago. One was a Pipe, one a WP&R Wheel, one a Wade and Butcher, one a Robeson and the last I don't recall the make of right now. I would asume they are different steel composition so the storage preserved them. Here's a pic of the Robeson (made ny Boler). I didn't do any Mass or other polishing to it befor the pic. Why did these stay so well preserved w/o any oil or fancy protection? Was it the cigar box? This may be a good experiment for someone that has the time and patients. Has anyone tried parking their straights under a pyramid yet? I am curently storing my blades in test tube stand that holds 50 blades, tooth brush stands and some in razor rolls in a safe with lots of large silicone gel packs. No issues of rust. Previously I had some in the china cabinet for a while just to keep them out of the way and I notices corosion on the edges after a few weels. I have two tool boxes of presision Tool Maker tools w/ the silicone packs and the tools are as good as they were 17 years ago when I packed them up while other hand tools in the same room but not the tool boxes rusted. I am sure this will relate to the edge of our blades and am interested in hearing about other success stories where the process did not involve oils even though oils do provide a solution as do others like Tough Glide.

Up until the MN get-together, I had been dipping my razors in a 0.5% solution of olive oil in isopropyl alcohol to protect my blades. Terry Knipschield, the knife maker, told me at the get-together that it was his understanding that olive oil is slightly caustic to steel.
I hadn't considered that, but as Bruce pointed out, olive oil is a vegetable oil, and is actually a fat. Camellia oil is as well. When either breaks down, the resulting fatty acids could interact with the steel and cause its degradation.
For that reason, I have switched to using a solution of mineral oil and isopropyl alcohol. The mineral oil should be inert and so blades should last longer with it.

I would suggest that Camellia oil should not be used for long term protection of blades.

I haven't noticed any edge problems with more than six razors that sort of fell out of my usual rotation. They were sharpened and stored for at least 8 months. All were coated with mineral oil and placed in a plastic pencil box containing a desiccant. About half were also in their own boxes.

Lynn


Regarding your post on 12 - 11 - 08 about Edge Deterioration, I'm wondering if there is the possibility that minute air pockets are formed in the steel during the forging process and manifest themselves on the edge. I have a carbon razor from the 40's or 50's that is essentially a brand new razor I purchased in the 1960's and only started using within the last year. I discovered the deteriorated edge on the same day that I came across your December 08 post.

I look forward an acceptable explanation for this phenomena. If you ever find out the source of the problem, please post it. Thanks ..... JERRY S

Interesting thread that I must have missed back in December so here are my thoughts.

As a sailboat owner who is working toward selling everything that doesn't fit on the boat and leaving for good it seems like I'm dealing with the issue of long term storage in a highly corrosive environment on a daily basis.

It's been my experience that unless whatever you are trying to "preserve" is completely clean and dry before you apply whatever preservative you are using there is the chance that there will be just enough contaminant present to cause trouble...and that includes treating a dry material in a humid environment. It could be those razors that seemed to dull while in storage were not as clean as you thought when you oiled them or at some point became contaminated due to a less than complete application of oil...and I'm not trying to slam you with this remark as I've had stuff rust that I had thought was bulletproof because some of the preservative had wicked off due to inadvertent contact with an absorbent material.

It's also been my experience with razors that it's pretty easy to damage the edge while prepping them or cleaning them for use after storage. Even tissue paper (or a Q-Tip) can dull the edge if you're not careful. The other thing I've noticed is when switching between different razors there is a short re-learning period before my technique is up to par and I'm fairly sure I've needlessly rehoned a few.

Or maybe you just have bathroom gremlins that sneak in a shave with your stored razors.

Thanks for resurrecting this -- I will have a chance to test this
in a couple months when I return to my home and native land.
I usually store my razors without any oil of any kind, so these
will have 4 months of disuse without protectant. I shall report
back, but you folks will have to be patient

- Scott

Hey Lynn, do you think it may just be that your honing's improving over time & that you can get better results as time passes than when you last honed the razor? That's what i find too!

This is in reference to Lynn's December '08 post.........

I just had another thought about the possible cause of edge deterioration. Back in the 90's I killed quite a few Bonsai trees by watering them with "softened" water until a co-worker pointed out that by passing my house water through a water softener was putting salt in my water and the salt killed my trees.

Rinsing my razors in softened water might also be damaging the blade edges. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?? JERRY

mrsell63, you are exactly correct. The "filters" that are sold to softer our homes' water aren't filters at all, they are ion exchange resins. True, they take out Calcium, Iron etc which result in hard water but the metal ions have to be replaced with another metal ion, mother nature doesn't like to allow electrically charged anything, much less water. So the Calcium, Iron and other ions in regular tap water are replaced by Sodium ions and so you are drinking dissolved Sodium ions which we all know is bad for one's health and is more corrosive that the metal ions it removed. If you buy the more expensive Potassium ion exchange resins the bad effects to your health are averted but the water still is quite corrosive. I drove a girl salesperson crazy one evening with all this. she finally left in tears. That's the kind of amusement that PhD chemists enjoy!!!

Originally Posted by blaireau

So the Calcium, Iron and other ions in regular tap water are replaced by Sodium ions and so you are drinking dissolved Sodium ions which we all know is bad for one's health and is more corrosive that the metal ions it removed.

So where do we get non corrosive water to drink ? Non PHD mere mortals want to know .