Thread: Some thoughts on how wedges were honed in the day...

My W&B wedge also had a quite convex edge bevel. I put it down to 100years of guys honing/stropping/whatever before SRP was invented so we could learn how to do it right!

Bevels. Bevels are a big topic among knife and other blade makers. A wedge is a V-shaped blade with no hollow grinding. Are there "modified wedges"? Probably, but only if the marketers of that company saw a sales advantage to claiming affinity to a wedge rather than a hollow grind. A hollow grind, whether it be symmetric or asymmetric, leaves a lot less steel behind the edge and is only for very specific purposes such as shaving blades. A microtome has a wedge shape and they're honed flat on the stone in some cases and on a very acute angle in other cases depending on manufacturer. I'll post a pic after I figure out where mine is stashed!

If you look on my Honing HowTo page, you'll see an excerpt from a 1908 book on honing microtomes. 1908 must be "back in the day" although, as I'm getting older, "the day" seems to be more vivid in my memory . . . . How did they hone? They used belgians and fine arkansas stones. The strops they used were plain leather. It was all fairly primitive relative to what we have today. They couldn't have achieved an edge like that from a 30000 Shapton.

I'm more with Randy on this one. The heavy, nearly wedge shaped blades were harder to hone and the typical home user did whatever was needed to get the edge to shave again without any of the science we are apply to it as a hobby. A dished stone, the spine lifted up as in sharpening a knife, whatever it took. The result is odd spine wear, odd bevels, etc...

I have a few early wedges that still shave that all show odd wear. one even looks like it was taken to a large round whetstone to add a bit of hollow to it at some point and looks terrible.....it also came out of it's ancient coffin shaped case ready to shave!

Tony

OK Gents I have one, Grottolord / Mike sent a huge A$$ meat chopper to hone out and this has the old bevel intact and obviously it was being used... I will post pics on this one, and I have Mike's permission to take my time and do many of the tests so I can figure out what sort of angle this edge was originally done at.... stay tuned...

Those old Sheffield wedge type razors were honed very similar to what we do today; they only lift the spine to remove the wire edge just before honing (similar to what we call “breadknifing”).

Most razors, after manufacture had wire edge, this is because at the grinding and polishing stage the wheel runs away from the edge, this creates the wire edge and is not normally removed until the razor is ready to be honed.
Note: this is unlike German hollow grinding where the wheels run into the edge… no wire edge… in fact the Germans create the wire edge after grinding and then remove it just before honing.

They were just as concerned as we are today about spine were, which is why they raise the spine to remove the wire before honing to "conserve" the spine, so the razor won’t appear to have been honed many times. After the wire is removed the razor is easily honed the usual way to shave readiness.
Of course this is done for new razors; however it is anyone’s guess how it is rehoned after it gets into the consumers hands.

Razors were reground when it is too difficult to rehone, In those days there were many who made a living regrinding razors and other cutlery.

Has anyone measured the original bevel angle on their wedges prior to re-honing it? That may be the first step in determining how they were honed.

As i understand it, angles were between 17 and 20 degrees, however all razors were ground by "hand” on large grinding wheels so you may find a wide variation... maybe from 15 to 21 degrees.
It would be interesting to see how much variation there is, especially among the same brand/model.
But even if the razor is honed many times, wouldn’t the angle be the same as it was when new if the spine wears at the same rate as the edge?... assuming previous owners never raised the spine.

Originally Posted by smythe

But even if the razor is honed many times, wouldn’t the angle be the same as it was when new if the spine wears at the same rate as the edge?... assuming previous owners never raised the spine.

That is a big assumption. I took a Herder razor blank to Mike Blue's workshop and we measured the Rockwell hardness on his tester.
The edge came in at 59.8 and the spine was 54.? on the HRC scale.

I doubt that there is equal wear on most razors.

Just my $.02,

Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

I was thinking the same thing myself Randy.

In regards to Joeds post, how would one go about measuring the original bevel angle before rehoning? I have a W&B wedge that still has its original bevel. I would like to participate and share my findings with gssixgun.

The short answer is to lay blade on relatively flat surface and measure angle from surface to spind across the blade then tip the blade up until the bevel looks like it is making full contact with the flat surface and measure angle the same way. Subtract the new angle from the first angle and that is the bevel angle, roughly. Long answer will come when I have more time. For a truely accurate measurement you will need precision equipment but for the purpose of this thread a rough measurement should do.

Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

I was thinking the same thing myself Randy.

In regards to Joeds post, how would one go about measuring the original bevel angle before rehoning? I have a W&B wedge that still has its original bevel. I would like to participate and share my findings with gssixgun.

Try this

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...ed-taping.html