Thread: Why lapping film rules

Originally Posted by Seraphim

You can hone ceramic on diamond lapping film (ceramic mohs scale-9, diamond mohs scale-10, steel mohs scale ~7.5).

I like your approach and lapping film is waiting in my desk to give it a try.

For the sake of having correct figures for prosperity...
hardened steel is not 7.5 Mohs, according to my sources: eFunda: Convert Hardness: Rockwell C-Scale
On the Rockwell C scale, which is what's generally used for cutlery, HRC 64 = 6 mohs. HRC 58 = 5 mohs. Both are exponential scales, so the differences between one point and the next are rather huge.

One thing that's not clear to me: how do I keep the film from not moving around when the sheet of paper sits between the tile and the film. I understand that the film sticks to the tile with a bit of water (air bubbles to be avoided). But how do I keep it stuck with the paper sheet in between?

Thanks,
Bart.

I have been using lapping films from the start. I have found them to very effective and quite easy to use.

Now after a year or so of doing my own honing and having honed about 50 razors this last year, I have two different honing progressions. One involves films and one does not.

BUT if I am setting a bevel I like the bevel off of 30 micron film better than a stone hone. It is so clean and for me it always does the trick.

Progression #1:
a) 30 micron lapping film (not diamond) until the bevel is clean and even and nicely passes the TNT.
b) #3000 Chosera (Naniwa) usually 30~50 there and back strokes.
c) #5000 Chosera (naniwa) ussally 30~50 there and back strokes.
d) 1 micron lapping film (not diamond) 30~50 there and back strokes.
e) 0.5 micron lapping film (not diamond) 30~50 there and back strokes.
f) 0.3 micron lapping film (not diamond) 30~50 there and back strokes.
g) 100 on latigo
h) 100 on horsehide

Note I don't always include step 'd'. If I am out of 1 micron film I can usually do a few very light strokes on the #5000 and get the same finish on the edge.

Progression 2:
a) 30 micron lapping film (not diamond) until the bevel is clean and even and nicely passes the TNT.
b) #3000 Chosera (Naniwa) usually 30~50 there and back strokes.
c) #5000 Chosera (naniwa) ussally 30~50 there and back strokes.
d) Coticule #1 (La Petite Blanche fast cutting) 30~50 there and back strokes.
e) Coticule #2 (La Petite Blanche Vintage, finer than the previous coticule) 30~50 there and back strokes.
f) Cromium Oxide balsa bench hone 30~50 there and back strokes.
g) 100 on latigo
h) 100 on horsehide

To be honest I like both but prefer the coticule method. But if I am going to sell a razor I use progression #1. The edge is extrememly keen and super smooth. Almost too sharp. But I like to keep my reputation consistent when selling a shave ready razor.

I have done a complete lapping film progression in the past and liked it but since I got the Chosera #3000 and #5000 my edges are still great and eliminate #15 micron, 5 micron and sometimes the 1 micron as well.

I keep my Chosera hones lapped so I can use them as a base for my lapping films. I cut them the same size as the chosera and use clean water to stick the film to the hone top (note the film I use is not the adhesive type). The only time I find that the film moves around a bit is the final two 0.5 and 0.3 micron film. The razor suction on these two is quite strong. In this case a firm finger on a corner of the film prevents any drastic movement of the film.

On another note I have seen mentioned that Bill Ellis also incorporates lapping film into his honing progression (FYI only).

I use lapping film as well. I have a SEVERE HAD disorder though.

I have a pretty good source for it I'll post it later, its saved on a different computer.

Originally Posted by Visibility

I have a pretty good source for it I'll post it later, its saved on a different computer.

I'll be waiting!! I need some more to play with!!

I can't find it? I have this site but they don't have the film...or at least I can't find it.

Diamond Suspension, Diamond Compound and Polishing Pads for polishing samples - Kemet UK

I'll keep looking.

Originally Posted by Visibility

I use lapping film as well. I have a SEVERE HAD disorder though.

I have a pretty good source for it I'll post it later, its saved on a different computer.

Did you have a chance to check your other computer?

I have been using the .3um to finish I bought from Japan Woodworker and must say it has been the best honing item I have ever bought. perfection. No longer am i worrying if there is enough paste or spray on my wooden strop or cotton or if it has worn off yet or not...I simply know its on the film in the right concentration, no worries...this is enough of a reason I think to try and eventually switch...

Not to mention I bought 3 sheets ( really only will need 1-2 which I think will last me all year if not longer - subject to change with even more experience/use) plus shipping for less than $20....I dont think I will get a new stone close enough to match this...definitely worth trying...


I simply placed in on my glass dining room table with the adhesive backing still on and it created its 'own seal' and did not move at all...so for me, no need to buy a piece of glass or granite...perhaps in the future to be more portable / look nicer...

anyways, best of luck...

To the above poster, you can find some lapping film thats not too expensive and it will last you a while. I just get the finer grades and use them for finishing.

It's a totally different feedback when honing and you might not even like it. To me it seems like it's more forgiving than a stone.

Maybe someone could organize a group buy since there is so much interest.

Originally Posted by mark7777

I have been using the .3um to finish I bought from Japan Woodworker and must say it has been the best honing item I have ever bought. perfection. No longer am i worrying if there is enough paste or spray on my wooden strop or cotton or if it has worn off yet or not...I simply know its on the film in the right concentration, no worries...this is enough of a reason I think to try and eventually switch...

Not to mention I bought 3 sheets ( really only will need 1-2 which I think will last me all year if not longer - subject to change with even more experience/use) plus shipping for less than $20....I dont think I will get a new stone close enough to match this...definitely worth trying...


I simply placed in on my glass dining room table with the adhesive backing still on and it created its 'own seal' and did not move at all...so for me, no need to buy a piece of glass or granite...perhaps in the future to be more portable / look nicer...

anyways, best of luck...

My experience has been that the finer the grit the shorter the lifespan.

I guess it depends on how often/how many you are honing if it will last all year.

Lapping film is great, great stuff, but the drawback is the limited lifetime.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

My experience has been that the finer the grit the shorter the lifespan.

I guess it depends on how often/how many you are honing if it will last all year.

Lapping film is great, great stuff, but the drawback is the limited lifetime.

How much do you think is the difference between diamond and AlOx or SiC films in terms of lifespan? The diamond ones are 10-15 times more expensive than the other material for the same surface area