Thread: What is the more important stone ???

Here is a thought I had as I satisfied my HAD last night and ordered 2 more stones....
What is the more important side of the honing spectrum???
Do you get more and more low end bevel setting stones, or do you get the high end finishers....

I mean think about this, every single experienced person with honing agrees on one thing whether they be a "Honemiester" and get paid, or just very experienced with honing, the one statement that every one agrees with is "A sharp edge begins with a sharp even bevel" ....

Now keep in mind that I probably do more restoration projects and repairs than most people so my low end is kind of important to me..

You see tons of people that have finishing stones from an 8k Norton on up to 30k-40k, everyone seems to be chasing the upper end all the way to .10 diamond pastes...
I was thinking that really it is the lower end that is actually more important...

But what do you guys think???

i think This is a little not fair question.

To me both ends are important .1 depends to another.similar to catch 22.you don't have 1 part your blade won't be in shape it suppose to be
My 2 cents.

Interesting point Glen and you've described my HAD odyssey spot on. I have a bunch of hones both synthetic and natural. Knowing what I know now if I could only have one it would be the Norton 4/8. I can set a bevel and get the razor sharp with the 4k and I can finish well enough to get a smooth shave with the 8k.

While the same thing may be said for the coticule with slurry there is enough variation between natural stones to make me stick with the Norton which is a known quantity. Having said that I sure do appreciate my DMT 1200 continuous diamond plate and my Shapton 1&2k and last but not least the Norton 1k. Which of the lower end stones I choose depends on the blade and how things are playing out with it as I hone. Nice to have alternatives.

For me, lower grit stones are about convenience and speed of honing. I can live with a basic low grit set because I only hone a few razors and I can afford spending more time on finer and slower stones. Higher grit stones, on the contrary, cannot be replaced or skipped if you want the smoothest edge possible even if you have one razor only...

I really don't know that I agree with the bevel part. I've had some razors that had bevels that looked like a chimpanzee had set the bevel yet they were wicked sharp razors that shaved with the best of them. I think an even bevel is more a cosmetic thing and is considered the mark of a honemeister when nice and even. Yes we all like a nice even bevel but I've found whether the bevel is so small you needed a magnifier to see it or is huge or even or or crooked makes to actual difference.

Whats important is that the bevel is there and is doing its job.

I also think people get carried away with this sharpness thing looking for the ultimate which of course is an endless quest for many.

Just remember our predessesors managed to get acceptably sharp or better razors without all these fancy hones and alternative honing methods we use.

As to the original question I think you need a balance between low and high stones. probably most get stones that do the job and as they get more razors they find certain razors seem to do better with certain hones and the collection increases. For me generally I seem to use the same few stones most of the time. But I don't think any one operation is more important than another. All phases of honing are equally important.

I hear ya. The lowest grit I have is 4k Norton, except for my no name Chinese kitchen hone which is probably too coarse. Sometimes, no number of strokes on the 8k will be enough because the bevel isn't there. However, if you haven't got a super fine hone, you can always use pastes or even newsprint. ... I'm inclined to support you viewpoint.

X

Glen, I agree with you that bevel-creation is the single most important part of the process. If you don't have a good bevel you'll never get a good edge. Whereas when it comes to finishing, you might prefer your escher to your coticule or your Shapton 16 or whatever but any of them will do.

Bigspendur, I think when it comes to those wavy bevels that nevertheless get sharp, it's less likely that a chimpanzee set the bevel than that a chimpanzee ground the blade in the first place. Subtle warps and other anomalies can make a wavy bevel unavoidable even for a honemeister. But as you say, it's usually purely cosmetic. This is because for all intents and purposes a bevel's a good bevel – wavy or not – so long as your two planes are meeting in a line. Putting a good bevel on a warped razor sometimes requires a narrow hone, sometimes a rolling stroke, etc. but if your honing strokes are making contact all the way down to the edge and all the way along it you've done a good job, whether it looks wavy to the eye or not.

So why does everyone collects high-grit hones. Maybe because bevel-setters tend to be artificial, and finishers to be exotic naturals. Who wants 5 Norton 1Ks? Who even wants a Norton 1K if they've got a DMT 1200 and are happy with it? Whereas lots of guys can't keep themselves from collecting another coticule even though they've got ten of 'em already, or scouring the web for the elusive Water of Ayr stone, even though it's about the same grit as all their other finishers.

Originally Posted by dylandog

Glen, I agree with you that bevel-creation is the single most important part of the process. If you don't have a good bevel you'll never get a good edge. Whereas when it comes to finishing, you might prefer your escher to your coticule or your Shapton 16 or whatever but any of them will do.

Bigspendur, I think when it comes to those wavy bevels that nevertheless get sharp, it's less likely that a chimpanzee set the bevel than that a chimpanzee ground the blade in the first place. Subtle warps and other anomalies can make a wavy bevel unavoidable even for a honemeister. But as you say, it's usually purely cosmetic. This is because for all intents and purposes a bevel's a good bevel – wavy or not – so long as your two planes are meeting in a line. Putting a good bevel on a warped razor sometimes requires a narrow hone, sometimes a rolling stroke, etc. but if your honing strokes are making contact all the way down to the edge and all the way along it you've done a good job, whether it looks wavy to the eye or not.

So why does everyone collects high-grit hones. Maybe because bevel-setters tend to be artificial, and finishers to be exotic naturals. Who wants 5 Norton 1Ks? Who even wants a Norton 1K if they've got a DMT 1200 and are happy with it? Whereas lots of guys can't keep themselves from collecting another coticule even though they've got ten of 'em already, or scouring the web for the elusive Water of Ayr stone, even though it's about the same grit as all their other finishers.

+1 to all of the above but especially the last bit.

AH!
The gender of angels. My favorite discussion...

I do 90% of my bevel correction work on a Coticule:
- because it leaves a bevel with a total absence of deep scratches.
- because it never overhones.
- because it leaves bevels without any teeth or other weaknesses at the very edge.
- because the hone is always ready to go: no frequent lapping, no soaking, no glazing.
- because it has such sweet feedback.
- because you can get one as narrow as 10mm real cheap, to deal with severely warped blades.
- because you can get one as wide as 40mm for a reasonable price, to deal with all other razors.
- because both stones will be great finishers as well.
- because you can buy more of them, and each one will be slightly different...

Yes, I think the bevel setting hone can influence the final results, or at least throw a monkey wrench into the rest of the progression. I always cringe when yet another newbie has a go on a piece of sandpaper, in absence of a dedicated bevel setting hone.

Bart.

While setting the bevel is probably the most important step in the process it's less critical what you use to do that (and I've seen everything from valve grinding compound to a very fine rasp) than what you use for the final polishing phase...and that's my postulation on why most of us concentrate on the upper end of the grit spectrum when HAD strikes.