Thread: First hone- which should I get?

Originally Posted by zib

Howard is a great guy. There are lot's of vendors out there. Shop around. You might be able to find some that are less expensive. Bestsharpeningstones.com is a lot less expensive. I somtimes have some on the classifieds as do other members. Check the Classifieds, You can get one at much lower price.
They all come from the same Quarry in Belgium. No one has better stones than anyone else, believe me. There's even much debate about so called "Vintage Coticules" Coticlues are 500 million years old, They All come from same quarry. What difference does 100 years make...Actually, Howard told me that, but it makes sense....Rob in Belgium will tell you the exact same thing. Every Coticule is unique unto itself.

I don't doubt you, but I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out why one vendor would charge more than 50% more than the next for what is an identical stone?

Originally Posted by pjrage

I don't doubt you, but I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out why one vendor would charge more than 50% more than the next for what is an identical stone?

Howard might be a bit more expensive, true but I'll tell you this. If or when you get a coticule from Howard you know it's going to be an awesome one because Howard inspects each coticule and rejects the ones he doesn't find good enough. He knows exactly which coticule to choose. So basically you'll be getting the right coticule for the job. If you have a specific request for a hard or soft one he can help you too. That's a small premium you pay for. Customer service and dedication.

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Howard might be a bit more expensive, true but I'll tell you this. If or when you get a coticule from Howard you know it's going to be an awesome one because Howard inspects each coticule and rejects the ones he doesn't find good enough. He knows exactly which coticule to choose. So basically you'll be getting the right coticule for the job. If you have a specific request for a hard or soft one he can help you too. That's a small premium you pay for. Customer service and dedication.

Good points Max. IMO, good customer service like that does go a long way. I don't mean to further hijack this thread, but what exactly are the differences between hard and soft coticules with respect to honing straight razors? Any reason to prefer one over the other or do they provide the same results (with the only variation being the normal difference between coticules) with just a different feel? Or is it reasonable to assume that the performance, on average, will be considerably different for a soft vs hard coticule?

EDIT: Found the answer to my own question. Here for those interested.

I do the same. I'm in contact with Rob Celis pretty much weekly. He hand picks my orders for me. If I'm not satisfied with any stone he sends me, He replaces it. I only import Select Grade, Medium Soft. I can, However accomodate any request for whatever reason. You want a combo, pink, hard, soft, whatever. I personally inspect every stone under magnification to make sure it has no cracks, Fissures, imperfection, whatever. All do respect to Howard. I've purchased stones from him to, but I don't skimp when it comes to Customer Service either. He charges more because people pay it, and he has a great reputation. I have and sell the identical stones. If someone is not satisfied, for whatever reason, I gladly take them back. I'll even take one back if they want to upgrade to a larger stone. If you email me, I do get back to you in one day. Sometimes it seems no matter what you do, or how hard you try, you can't get a break. Even if you just about give away your stone to try and get some props. That's how one vendor can sell his much cheaper than another. It's not because corners are cut. You just try and hang on. As a matter of fact, Any member here can contact Rob Celis of Ardennes Coticule and ask for yourself.

IMHO get a Norton 4/8 learn that stone, then after you master it, add any stone you want and expand your honing knowledge.... In fact the Norton starter set is probably the best first buy there is at about $120 shipped then later when the RAD bug bites you have the tools to fix those E-Bay razors too......

Starting on a Coticule unless it is just for re-touching a shave ready razor, is a hard row to hoe....

+1 for the Norton 4/8 Can get a good shave off it to.

Steven

My first hones were a Norton 4/8k and 1k/220 with lapping plate. It all came together as a package. I couldn't resist the deal.....Great Hones......

This is not a recommendation for a hone; more of an observation from another newbie.

Norton's 4k/8k is the usual recommendation for new guys, but like I mentioned to another member, I'm surprised the DMT W4E and the W4EE doesn't get more attention, especially the W4EE (8000 grit).

It's diamond plate, no lapping, only 24 bucks or so (maybe 26) and seems to be a great hone for everyone who has reviewed it. I intend to get these two hones and use a finishing stone at around 12k and chromium for my setup, so as to smooth away that diamond harshness.

Now let me be clear. I haven't had the experience of comparison, and therefore I can't recommend these hones and remain intellectually honest, but those honers who tried them really seem to like these little diamond hones. They describe them as a great option in both price and maintainence, with ease of use as an added bonus. It may not have as much talk on the forum, but what commentary it does have is absolutely positive.

The Norton, however, does seem to present some difficulties. Some say it dishes easy, needs a lot of lapping, collects edge-damaging grit from sandpaper, and costs over a hundred. As a new guy, it made me a little leery, to be honest.

More to the point, is the Norton the most recommended due to 'market saturation', i.e., most of the regulars started with one? Are people loathe to recommend a newer hone?

Originally Posted by Spatterdash

This is not a recommendation for a hone; more of an observation from another newbie.

Norton's 4k/8k is the usual recommendation for new guys, but like I mentioned to another member, I'm surprised the DMT W4E and the W4EE doesn't get more attention, especially the W4EE (8000 grit).

It's diamond plate, no lapping, only 24 bucks or so (maybe 26) and seems to be a great hone for everyone who has reviewed it. I intend to get these two hones and use a finishing stone at around 12k and chromium for my setup, so as to smooth away that diamond harshness.

Now let me be clear. I haven't had the experience of comparison, and therefore I can't recommend these hones and remain intellectually honest, but those honers who tried them really seem to like these little diamond hones. They describe them as a great option in both price and maintainence, with ease of use as an added bonus. It may not have as much talk on the forum, but what commentary it does have is absolutely positive.

The Norton, however, does seem to present some difficulties. Some say it dishes easy, needs a lot of lapping, collects edge-damaging grit from sandpaper, and costs over a hundred. As a new guy, it made me a little leery, to be honest.

More to the point, is the Norton the most recommended due to 'market saturation', i.e., most of the regulars started with one? Are people loathe to recommend a newer hone?

I've not had experience with the diamond plates you've mentioned, but one of the biggest reasons that the norton 4k/8k combo at least is recommended so frequently to newbies, is not only because it's a great hone, also because almost everyone has tried it, therefore there is a ton of experience around here on what it can and can't do, what results to expect, and what the potential problems are. So when a newbie has a question, lots of people can answer it quickly and tell them exactly what to try, because they themselves have the same hone(s). If, however, someone bought some less popular hones, and came and asked a question, there may be many less people who have used them, so people might not know what to make of the newbie's findings and would be forced to guess. This could put the newbie in a position of not knowing if it's his hones or his technique, kind of hindering the whole process.

Originally Posted by Spatterdash

More to the point, is the Norton the most recommended due to 'market saturation', i.e., most of the regulars started with one? Are people loathe to recommend a newer hone?

Ummmmm No !!!!! the Norton is the most recommended because it works... and works very well, help is easy to find, and there are plenty of proved systems to use with this hone....

Are there better hones???? you bet, at that entry price ??? not even close....

As PJ so eloquently stated above LOL

One other thing I should add, not knocking DMT's but they are a rather pressure sensitive honing system, and they need to be broken in correctly....
Two things that might hinder a newbie to honing razors....


Update:
I went and looked at the hones you are suggesting here
http://www.heimerdingercutlery.com/c...TOKEN=25208584

This is one time I am going to be very direct.... no offense intended here...
These are not a good choice for honing razors, IMHO and experience, take that statement for what it's worth......