Thread: Why tape the spine?

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Here are some things that 1 layer of tape does accomplish....
the positives:
...
Automatically increasing what RandyDance likes to call "torque" to the edge..
...

As usual Glen, you have added insight with your posts, and made a light go on for me.

(I tape a small percentage of the time, with no apology: for expensive/mint razors, or for the occasional razor that won't seem to take an edge with my limited skill level any other way. It simply works.)

A while back I acquired a nice Nakayama Asagi from Old_School. For some reason, the difference in draw on the Asagi with tape vs. un-taped is much more noticeable than on any other hone I've used. I've been getting outstanding results with taped razors on the Asagi, and I think it may be directly due to this enhanced torque effect from the tape.

I don't have the "feel for the steel" that some have, but I'm surely trying. Using a feather light touch with tape seems to help me keep the edge pinned to the Asagi surface throughout the stroke, while countering my naturally too-heavy honing hand.

For Dave Martell....... Jerry from Reading PA here; Over the years I have acquired a number of razors that have been honed to death. It's a fair guarantee that they were never taped. It's also a fair guarantee that you would be more willing to buy my razors that were taped than my razors that were never taped. YES?/NO?
And you might be willing to let your hanging strop sag just a bit when you take the tape off. I think it's a matter of feel just like all aspects of honing and stropping..... YES?/NO?
That CrOx paste and powder you sold me has a nice FEEL to it...........!!! JERRY

I reworked a really bad hone job on an old Frederick Reynolds (near true) wedge last night and to be truthful the thought of using tape was creeping from the back to the front of my mind the further along I got. I didn't give in to the urge simply because I wanted to see how tough it was to fix the mess and set a bevel without the help of tape and admittedly the task sucked.

So I concede that for at least this type of job I can see why one would tape the spine - it's just a hell of a lot easier. I can also see where using tape to keep the hone line to a minimum on a vintage or new razor would also have merit.

Thanks again to everyone for shedding light on this for me.

Originally Posted by DaveMartell

I've been reading a lot on honing on all of the razor forums and keep seeing references to taping the spine. It seems that people are either looking to preserve appearance (say on a new damascus razor or vintage decorated spine), or trying to reduce spine wear, and/or trying to reduce the amount of honing required to bring up a shave ready edge on troublesome razors like near wedges.

The thing that bothers me about taping is that it would seem that if you tape the spine (during honing) then the angle will change (become more obtuse) at the edge.

That is correct, but the difference is so minute that it easily falls within the range of bevel angles found on razors.

Originally Posted by DaveMartell

Then you go to the strop with no tape on the spine which then makes the angle more acute because the spine is now lying lower than it was when it was covered in tape which I would then assume brings the edge up off of the leather.

Even on a paddle strop, there is enough cushion in the leather to make contact. Stropping a razor gives a very noticeable effect. If it wasn't working, taping wouldn't have survived it as a practical option for honing. I sure wouldn't want to re-tape before every shave, just to be able to strop it.

Originally Posted by DaveMartell

And then what about correcting uneven wear on a used razor? If the spine is taped then only the edge will be honed back into form while the spine will be left messed up which then brings me back to what happens when you strop since the edge and spine don't match?

Good point, but that kind of razor repair belongs in the realm of restoration. Techniques like "breadknifing" and taping the edge while working on the spine are used there.

Originally Posted by DaveMartell

Aren't the edge and spine supposed to wear together? I always thought of the razor's spine thickness as being directly proportional to the width of the blade.

They won't. In a hollow ground razor, the edge lives in very thin steel, while the spine occupies more volume. As a result, the flat strip of spine wear is often broader than the edge bevel. The rules of abrasion dictate that in such cases both flats won't wear away at equal pace.
Personally, I generally don't bother with taping the spine for no other reason than protecting it from wear, except on a razor with a fancy spine. But I admit to this: it's easier to remove steel from a spine that ended up too thick as result of taped honing, than it is adding steel to a spine that became too thin from untaped honing...

Originally Posted by DaveMartell

Also, isn't it safe to say that razors have never been spine taped through the centuries? I can't picture a 1890 barber slapping electrical tape on the spine between customers. If this is the case then when did this practice start or is this a modern (recent?) practice? Is there historical precedence that I'm missing?

In Europe, where most razors were produced in the first place, people have, since very long, been relying on strops loaded with abrasive substances for sharpening. Those loom strops go way back in time, and both Thiers Issard and Dovo are selling them under their own brand name. Those abrasive strops create convex bevels. Convex bevels meet each other at an obtuser angle than straight bevels of a hone.
Since the manufacturers themselves seems to consider that standard procedure, wouldn't it be possible that their ideal spine thickness / width of blade ratios are adapted to that procedure?

Originally Posted by DaveMartell

I guess the point that I'm trying to get to is that I can see a modern reason (like protecting appearance) but I don't really get the "multi-angle creation" or even the "get it done faster/easier" method as I'm a believer in doing things the right way (even if it's the hard way) or not doing it at all. If not taping spines has worked for 200 yrs. then why do it now?

Because most common men in the past shaved with less sharper stantards than we do today, or they simply relied on a barber to get a shave. Straight razors almost vanished off the Earth, before the current revival that thrives on a vastly more efficient way to share knowledge about their use and sharpening.

I 'm currently experimenting with a method to get the sharpest possible edge off a Belgian Coticule (for many in the past their single razor hone). It involves a layer of tape at a certain stage in the honing process. Logic would seemingly dictate that, if I was able to get it with tape, I should also be able to get the same without tape, albeit with more work.
But it doesn't work that way. The details are in the dedicated thread.

Best regards,
Bart.

Thanks for the thoughtful post Bart. Interesting observations. Just a side note from a tape advocate. I had recently lapped my long Swaty and had planned to try it dry to refresh an edge after a first pass if I felt it would improve it and then I realized that I would have to tape the darn thing if it was going to be effective. Not the end of the world but kind of a PITA. Also I'm thinking that my taping a 5/8 or above won't change the relationship between spine and bevel enough to matter but with a 4/8 it very well may make a difference. Any thoughts?

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Also I'm thinking that my taping a 5/8 or above won't change the relationship between spine and bevel enough to matter but with a 4/8 it very well may make a difference. Any thoughts?

No thoughts just math,,,

If you look back in the archives you will find that one of our resident math whiz's did the math for a 5/8 razor and the angle change is less than 1/2 a degree.... Keep in mind that if you actually believe anything about the reasons that one should not tape the spine it is the angle and that the angle of all razors was somehow scientifically deduced for each size of razor...Which if true would mean that the increase in angle would still be slightly less than 1/2 a degree.....
Did that make any sense?????

Originally Posted by gssixgun

No thoughts just math,,,

If you look back in the archives you will find that one of our resident math whiz's did the math for a 5/8 razor and the angle change is less than 1/2 a degree.... Keep in mind that if you actually believe anything about the reasons that one should not tape the spine it is the angle and that the angle of all razors was somehow scientifically deduced for each size of razor...Which if true would mean that the increase in angle would still be slightly less than 1/2 a degree.....
Did that make any sense?????

It does Glen and I think I recall reading that in other threads on the topic when I first came around. I just have an intuitive feeling, nothing scientific, that the 4/8 is from edge to spine is too short for the tape not to make a difference. I guess I need to take a 4/8 that I have honed with tape and work on it without tape to see if it makes a difference.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

No thoughts just math,,,

If you look back in the archives you will find that one of our resident math whiz's did the math for a 5/8 razor and the angle change is less than 1/2 a degree.... Keep in mind that if you actually believe anything about the reasons that one should not tape the spine it is the angle and that the angle of all razors was somehow scientifically deduced for each size of razor...Which if true would mean that the increase in angle would still be slightly less than 1/2 a degree.....
Did that make any sense?????

I agree that taping won't make much of a difference for a long time. My only concern with taping is the long term implications. Assuming you tape, and you hone off 3/16", how much angle change is that? I suppose if its not much, then it wouldn't matter and my fears are groundless.

I don't tape because its easier and I don't see the point. Except when honing a wedge. I was doing a resto recently and used four layers to grind it down. And then I took off the tape to establish the bevel. I think I cried.

Assuming a consistent spine width of 3/16" (0.187"). One layer of 0.007" tape will change the total included bevel angle by:

• For the 4/8 razor: 1.54 degrees
• For the 6/8 razor: 1.25 degrees

Just divide by 2 to get approximate change per side.

Here's a recent observation. 2 weeks ago, I had to hone a brand new TI Silverwing for one of the members here. I honed it up with a pretty standard procedure without any use of tape.
When finished, the edge looked impeccable under the stereo microscope but after the test shave, which was great, reexamination under magnification revealed some microscopical chips randomly missing from the very edge, obviously caused by the collision with my hard whiskers. Possibly, the Silverwings, being so high up the Rockwell scale, have a tendency for being brittle.

Anyway, I went back to redo the final honing stages, with a layer of tape added to the spine. The next test shave felt just as smooth as the first, but what struck me the most was that the chipping tendency was completely gone. I expected some improvement, but not that I'd find zero discernible edge deterioration this time.

Of course this is just one individual observation, but it shows me that taping can affect edge durability before any other changes in the shaving comfort are showing up at my personal test shave radar.

I informed the owner that he needs to reapply the tape whenever he wants to touch-up the razor and included the tape so he has no issues with variable tape thickness.

Bart.