Thread: Why tape the spine?

To add to this discussion I wanted to ask what you guys thought about spine thickness being created to give the correct honing angle?

My theory is that possibly way back when this was something that was factored into making a razor. I believe that the spine thickness whould be directly proportional to the width of the blade (when new). Maybe this was the case, maybe not, we'll never know as time has faded and so has the knowledge.

If this is correct, and let's assume for a second that it is, then maybe new razors being made today aren't being made the correct way. Maybe the current makers havent figured out this ratio or simply ignore it? I don't know these answers, just asking is all. To add to this then I see our movement or actions of taping spines on vintage razors as simply a cheat. Maybe a necessary cheat (in some cases) but a cheat non-the-less.

And please, even though did briefly explain where I come from in my ideas of sharpening, let's leave out the experience factor and simply discuss the whys and hows. I really would hate to get into a ****ing match over who knows more. I just want to hear your opinions, not your resume.

I really have never found this to be the case. If I have a lot of metal to remove like when I am repairing chips or chunks out of an edge, I will tape the spine because I don't want to overly flatten the spine in the repair. As previously mentioned, I also tape when honing Damascus to preserve the pattern. For everyday honing, there should not be that much steel removal whether taping or not.

I have found that this is purely a personal preference. Tim Zowada, who probably started all this when he was just learning to make razors and hone, continued to use this method to preserve his Damascus pattern on the spines and it is a good idea for that in my opinion.

I have not found that taping improves an edge over not taping and have experimented with hundreds if not more razors playing around with this going from no tape up to 3 layers. I have not found taping to make getting an edge any easier either.

It is great however watching the debate continue and good points are being made by all.

Thanks,

Lynn

Originally Posted by Leighton

I can't tell the difference between a razor I taped and one I haven't. When I'm honing however....so much less steel needs to be removed with the razor taped. So much less wear on my Nanis....

Originally Posted by DaveMartell

To add to this discussion I wanted to ask what you guys thought about spine thickness being created to give the correct honing angle?

I don't think there is one correct honing angle. I think the correct honing angle is actually a wide enough range to easily include two or three degree changes in bevel angle. I think this because of my own experience, which is vast and varied, as well as superior

Originally Posted by majurey

So true! Here's a picture of my custom Livi and the steel cuff he created for it to be used when honing. Given how strongly Dave feels about taping and honing, my guess is this is just going to p1ss him off royally!

It would be cool if someone started mass marketing those steel honing cuffs..........at least for the big wedges - it would be nice to be able to just slide on the cuff and start honing, rather than laying on layers of tape and measuring them carefully. And you wouldn't worry about the tape eroding as you hone.

I guess it would be hard to do this because you'd need different sizes for different razors, but a guy can dream.

Originally Posted by Lynn

I have not found that taping improves an edge over not taping and have experimented with hundreds if not more razors playing around with this going from no tape up to 3 layers. I have not found taping to make getting an edge any easier either.

Lynn, do you also find it doesn't matter if you use tape on thick W&B type wedges?

I did shave with the R. Muse' k - no tape-(If anyone has heard of this razor and has info let me know) and got a decent shave. Better (a little) than yesterday's with tape. Is that because I am more used to the blade?

Honing tonight with tape. I get to use my Nakayama again tonight

Originally Posted by DaveMartell

So back on track....basically my point in all this is "why"?

If straight razor can make it through time and use for 100-200 yrs of honing and stropping without tape on the spine then "why" do we feel that it's now necessary?

"Why" bother to create an angle at "X" degrees (from honing on your stones) but need to strop at "Y" degree angle?

And again, I understand the idea of taping for beautification purposes or for saving vintage steel but "why" for the rest?

Dave, first let me say that my sharpening experience is limited to pocket knives in an informal way for the last 45 years and straight razors somewhat intensively for the past 1 1/2 years.

Speaking for myself alone, I began taping spines because the forum member and neighbor who first showed me how to hone did. He honed razors for others and said that customers wouldn't appreciate hone wear on the razors he sent back to them.

In addition I knew that since I was learning to hone chances were that I would spend more time on the hones for a given razor than a more experienced practitioner. I had previous experience with collecting razors in the past and I was working with quality stuff right off the bat, both new and vintage, and I didn't want to chance cosmetically damaging spines due to inexperience.

So I posted the poll asking other members if they taped spines. As you see if you accessed the archived thread a majority taped some if not all. Many members who are known to be competent honers and even honemiesters tape their spines.

As previously mentioned when I started going nuts with accumulating razors I realized that keeping track of which were taped and which were not would be a PITA so I decided to just tape them all and it is, as majurey pointed out, more of a hassle.

In the previous threads that have come up on this topic the scientific minded members have pointed out how small the amount that one layer of tape changes the blade angle. It is well within the variance in degrees found between the spine to bevel within razors by different makers. So unless a person is using multiple layers or something thick like duct tape the difference in degrees is inconsequential according to the general consensus. I assure you that if I wasn't getting good results with tape I would've long since given up on it and would hone without it.

With all due respect here is a quote from an old post by Lynn Abrams that I think is worth inserting here,"I think the biggest problem out there not unlike shaving is that people think because they have honed knives or tools forever and shaved since they were 12 that it's gonna be very easy and expect it to be. "The problem *CAN'T* be me". But a razors edge is a very delicate instrument and with a little patience and experimentation, you *CAN* learn to hone with the best of them, even if you are just honing for your own satisfaction. The search for that absolute perfect or just a little better shave resulting from that just a little better edge is never ending."

Originally Posted by loueedacat

Lynn, do you also find it doesn't matter if you use tape on thick W&B type wedges?

I do not use tape when I find one in decent shape. It's just that most are pretty ground up and have a significant amount of damage that needs to be fixed to get them shavable.

Lynn

Now we're getting somewhere. I kinda' felt that I was going to have to get in the ring to defend myself, I'm glad things have taken a turn for the better.

FWIW, I happen to like the spine taping idea in the case of repair work where edge damage has to be removed and spine wear is best kept to a minimum, great trick for this task. In this type of situation I could see myself doing this. Besides that I'll be leaving the tape on the roll for the time being. To each his own though.

I would like to throw something out there. The amount one layer of tape will change the angle of the bevel is very small. I would think that a hanging strop has 2 things going for it. It is made of a fairly soft material and when stropping the edge of the blade will be serviced because the razor will sink in a little. Another thing is that the amout of deflection from where the strop is hanging and your hand is added to the equation. I like taping razors that will show the honing marks like a satin finished razor but a polished carbon blade doesn't need it in my book. I have no difference only using one layer of tape. More than one is another matter.

Take Care,
Richard