Thread: Harrelson's Shapton breadknife trick on Naniwas

Originally Posted by gssixgun

+1 with Jimmy
I think he said it best...

New techniques are new techniques, they often go through some growing pains, now if Howard is actually using this technique I personally would rather see a video of him doing it as Howard has been honing razors for some time....

Agree Glen,

Howard has been honing straight razors for the last several years now and like everyone else has had to learn from scratch. As Jimmy mentions previous experience with tools and knives are not the same as the straight razor. There is really no perfect technique, but like with stones, being able to test a few hundred or a thousand razors on something is a lot better than shooting a video after a few successes or of a concept that works on something else. It really helps to have the good, the bad and the ugly worked out before people start experimenting with something that might not work for them. Think about the questions you and I got when doing the webcam in Asheville. This can be both frustrating and expensive.

I do hope that people never quit trying to come up with new techniques or media. My first success was on a Norton 4K/8K utilizing the pyramid method. A couple hundred stones later, pastes, films and different strops have made this journey one of unlimited learning and a journey that continues every day. I just gots to find that poifect edge and get that most glorious shave of all time.......THE ULTIMATE..........

As far as the bread knifing as part of the sharpening process, I have not seen any benefit in this after watching the DVD and quite a few attempts, no matter how lightly the pressure has been applied.

Lynn

Thanks,

Lynn

In carpenter talk the word is "joint" and for sharpening handsaws it refers to running a file over the tops of the teeth to get them all the same length. When you file the teeth, you get rid of shine of the flat spot on the tip of the tooth and now all the teeth are working instead of just the tall ones. How this applies to honing a razor is somewhat of a mystery to me in that one may have some very tiny micro teeth from working the bevel on a hone, but jointing the edge at that stage of the honing process, as seen on the video, is to my mind totally counter productive. Considering what Harrelson did at the finishing stage of the honing, I can only think he was making the edge safer for his first attempt at shaving.

However, I have yet to screw up enough courage to try it on one of my sharp razors, so I'm only speculating here. Perhaps I'm missing a bet. Then again, I never win when I've tried gambling, so I may just be well served by staying in my safe little rut. But if the rut is in the road which goes where you're going, maybe it ain't such a bad place to be.

He did, though, generate a remarkable amount of swarf when he was honing. I haven't been able to replicate that and feel diminished by that inability. Maybe I need to joint my edges more.

Thanks for clarifying the term Bruce, it must be
my wacky Canuck accent that threw me off

Regarding the shave in the video, to my eyes the
primary issue was technique: the angles he was
using were just not for shaving, and may have
even destroyed the edge right off the bat.

- Scott

Originally Posted by sebell

Thanks for clarifying the term Bruce, it must be
my wacky Canuck accent that threw me off

Regarding the shave in the video, to my eyes the
primary issue was technique: the angles he was
using were just not for shaving, and may have
even destroyed the edge right off the bat.

- Scott

I have to give him an "A" for a valiant shaving effort though. He was definitely doing multiple passes.

Jointing saw teeth, or a card scraper, or edge of a board- is truing, or you might say leveling or flattening. Using planes and such to make doors or window sash, arch. mouldings etc is the work of joiners. Joiners join, so both terms are interchangable.
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What are the differences in honing planes, knives, chisels, razors.... there are obvious differences in the way they are held.

There are differences in individual treatment of two of the same item.

Pressure is not a difference as any object may or may not need some.

Kevin,

I don't agree that the words are interchangeable. Although, joiners would use a jointer (plane). Here the joiner would joint the sticks to ready the stock to be stuck together.

That calls for another

`

I'll get the next round.

Do you make hand saws?

Originally Posted by kevint

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What are the differences in honing planes, knives, chisels, razors.... there are obvious differences in the way they are held.

There are differences in individual treatment of two of the same item.

Pressure is not a difference as any object may or may not need some.

??? Really curious???

People have been successfully honing razors to very keen edges for a long time without this jointing technique, all the while maintaining good edge retention. I say if it aint broke, don't fix it.

I'm not against innovation at all, but this is basically solving a non existent problem, IMHO.

I'm amazed every time I think that he had only sharpened a few razors and had NEVER previously used a straight razor, and then goes on to make an instructional video on how to hone complete with shaving demonstration.

I typically think of instructional videos as an appeal to a higher authority on a particular subject. While Mr. Stanley is a high authority with regards to tool sharpening, I'll stick with Dave Martell for kitchen knife sharpening and Lynn with straight razors.

With engines the old american saying is that "There's no replacement for displacement", and that converts to "There's no replacement for experience" when it comes to sharpening.

On a similar note, I'd love to see GSsixgun (Glen) break out a razor honing vid!

At risk of a tangent, I'll add that joining and jointing are two different things, i.e. non-interchangeable.

Originally Posted by Ben325e

People have been successfully honing razors to very keen edges for a long time without this jointing technique, all the while maintaining good edge retention. I say if it aint broke, don't fix it.

I'm not against innovation at all, but this is basically solving a non existent problem, IMHO.

I'm amazed every time I think that he had only sharpened a few razors and had NEVER previously used a straight razor, and then goes on to make an instructional video on how to hone complete with shaving demonstration.

I typically think of instructional videos as an appeal to a higher authority on a particular subject. While Mr. Stanley is a high authority with regards to tool sharpening, I'll stick with Dave Martell for kitchen knife sharpening and Lynn with straight razors.

With engines the old american saying is that "There's no replacement for displacement", and that converts to "There's no replacement for experience" when it comes to sharpening.

On a similar note, I'd love to see GSsixgun (Glen) break out a razor honing vid!

At risk of a tangent, I'll add that joining and jointing are two different things, i.e. non-interchangeable.

fwiw harrelson also has a kitchen knife sharpening dvd,

Tangent on Ben. sorry but I bet this topic is near talked out,

what are the differences between joining and jointing