Thread: Japanese naturals, Karasu and Renga Suita in Particular

Khaos I'd email Old_School. He can have a look and give you much more info than any of us can.
Ones used on tools are usually a rougher grit than razor J-nats.

Joe what was the one you were using in BJ's shave den at the meet?

Originally Posted by khaos

Its from a guy in Japan. No its not stamped. He has a few, though he personally thinks the pear ones are finer grit but he is a chisel dude and I was wondering if anyone here had experience as to whether it is finer or not? Lets actually not compare it to other J-nats. How does the finish rank against, say, an average Escher? If it is similar, then to me it is worth it. If not, I don't care how collectible it is, I will pass because I would rather have a more functional lower grit hone.

I will say it looks exactly like the other Karasu I have seen, just the pattern isn't as nice. (Not as collectible?=Cheaper?) I personally don't care what it looks like I'm after a good finish. Hence my dismisal of renga suita, its sought after because of looks and rarity rather than exceptional performance. Karasu seems to be highly regard both rare wise and performance wise. I just want to know how good it's performance is.

How did you reach that conclusion about the suita? Did T-N tell you they are only pretty?

To be valued as a sharpening stone, it first has to be a good sharpening stone. If you had two that were equal in every way except one was very plain and common and the other stippled with beauty marks; then the pretty one may be price higher. If the stone makes a slurry and cuts at 30K+ it is hard to say that it is "just for looks" such may not be the case with individual pieces but it is not beyond expectation.

Karasu are not the rarest or the finest, They may be the hardest. They can also regularly have "iron scratchers" as can suita.

best wishes in your searches

Originally Posted by Gunner777

Ones used on tools are usually a rougher grit than razor J-nats.

why do you say that? I think it would be quite unusal to take a large chunk and cut it for razor hones- like coticules or eschers.

if you look closely at kamisori stamp stones you will see few regular rectangles. They are the drop offs and odd shapes, smaller and thinner that are generally speaking less suitable for wood tools.

Kev,

That's what I was told by a member as well as on a Japanese website that didn't sell J-nats but had a lot of history and info on them.
I was told and tend to believe the person who told me the Karasu is pretty much the top shelf stone. Certainly above the Kiita I use.
Oh to answer your question I have seen the rectangles on the side and end of several stones.

You guys confuse me so much i don't want it anymore.
who is buying? Joe are you? go head please i back up.(already send private pm 8 of them to khaos)

Originally Posted by Gunner777

Kev,

That's what I was told by a member as well as on a Japanese website that didn't sell J-nats but had a lot of history and info on them.
I was told and tend to believe the person who told me the Karasu is pretty much the top shelf stone. Certainly above the Kiita I use.
Oh to answer your question I have seen the rectangles on the side and end of several stones.

If you read japanese then the world of sharpening stones should open up wide for you. do you have a link?

I am not sure of what you mean by top shelf. A karasu could come from any number of places- different mines. they can be worthless as well as valuable. Think of synthetics- if you said it was "yellow" how much would that mean?

by rectangle i meant the whole thing not a side, edge or end.

I should have specified Nakayama Karasu:-) Nah I don't read Japanese. My daughter and her best friend (majoring in it in college after taking it in high school) do so I borrow them for translation. I also sometimes use a translation program which works sorta.
I thought you meant the Kanji on the sides of the stone. Now I'm confusing myself Kev---LOL!

Originally Posted by Gunner777

Joe what was the one you were using in BJ's shave den at the meet?

That would be a Nakayama I got from OLD_SCHOOL a little while ago. It's really a two-sided kiita:
the narrow side has a fair amount of nashiji, the top side has a tiny swipe of Karasu in the corner, and is 95% kiita.

Originally Posted by khaos

Its a wierd shape, like a trapezoid, roughly 6ish at the shortest 7ish at the longest, and about 2 or 3 inch wide.
It has no stamps but I'm willing to bet it is genuine Karasu from pictures of other stones I have seen.

I see what you mean on price. Well. I am thoroughly impressed by my current J-nat. What do you guys think of this potential Karasu? Real? Fake? 8k level? Escher level? I know the grit is a crapshoot but what do they tend to be?
karasu, great deals on on eBay!

I have limited knowledge of Japanese stones, but I do own and regularly use a Nakayama Karasu. It's a great finishing stone.

My understanding is that the term karasu is Japanese for "crow," and is simply a descriptive term for the jet black spots or stripes on the stone. It is not a name for a specific geologic stone, like say, Novaculite. It is a feature description.

I think that in the case of the Nakayama mine, the term karasu is used to describe the prominent feature of a specific strata of rock that happens to be found deep in that mine, which is prized as a very fine hone. So, a Japanese stone may be described as karasu, but may have different characteristics than a Nakayama karasu. Then again, perhaps all karasu that are sold as hones come from Nakayama mine, I don't know? Old School would likely know.

The picture of the stone looks very much to me like my Nakayama karasu, with a more yellow coloring. I don't know if it performs the same. Mine was expensive, even from a trusted source like Old School that sells well below market prices. But maybe you stumbled onto a bargain, it happens.

My specific Nakayama karasu is a very fine polisher, with a very prominent feedback or draw, and is fast. I haven't used an Escher, but the karasu I have seems to produce noticeably finer edges than my Shapton 16. But it isn't out of the ballpark of the other Japanese stones I have, a Kiita and an Asagi, both Nakayamas. The karasu may be a bit finer, but is a little less consistent and forgiving than the other Japanese stones. It is noticeably faster though.

My karasu has no stamps. For some reason, I haven't seen a picture of any karasu with stamps. Maybe the "ink spot" patterns make it impractical to legibly stamp them, I don't know.