Thread: Microbevels with the Shapton 30000

Originally Posted by aragornelessar86

isn't a microbevel essentially what stropping creates over time? As the bevel becomes rounded by the strop, the angle of the actual edge becomes greater. That's basically what you're doing with a microbevel.

Or am I totally off-track?

Yes, you are totally off track. Stropping does not remove steel.

wait wait wait, i thought the general consensus was that stropping does remove metal, albeit at a snails pace? I can't find the link but the post about the article with microscopic photos showing slightly reshaped edges and removed debris?

Originally Posted by bassguy

wait wait wait, i thought the general consensus was that stropping does remove metal, albeit at a snails pace? I can't find the link but the post about the article with microscopic photos showing slightly reshaped edges and removed debris?

The amount of metal that stropping removes is not significant in contrast to the cutting power of the Shapton. If you were stropping with pastes you could relate the two more IMHO.
Mike

It wouldn't hurt to this thread, "Interesting Article" another look to add to the conversation.

just to through in some pieces: The interesting article seems quite ... "old".
Verhoeven could not see any effect of plain leather on steel edges at 2.000x magnification done with SEM, at all!

It however is interesting that it is obviously possible to maintain a shaving edge with plain leather much much longer,
than without. So there must be an effect to some degree.

Pasted leather will (pretty fast) create a rounded appleseed bevel.
That´s like a multi-bevel. If done correctly, there is nothing wrong with it.

My theory what plain leather does is rather bend the steel, than abrade it.
Verhoeven showed that the highest possible polishing action is not only an abration
but a plastic flow of steel, not because it melts, but because of the same reason you can bend aluminium foil, but not a bar of 20mm Al

Originally Posted by Kingfish

I am sure others have done this before but I have been experimenting with microbevels with the Shapton 30000. I has given me the sharpest and smoothest edge to date. It is easy to do and is repeatable.
If you have a Shapton 30K and have not tried it, I would like to know what you think. Here is what I do:
Basically, create your bevel as normal up to and including your 16000.
Then the final step, add one layer of tape and let all that 30000 out on a very small fraction of the bevel. Give about10 skillful laps and take a look, TPT or a shave.
Do not strop or add and further development with paste etc.
The final edge is the smoothest, cleanest and sharpest edge I have ever seen or shaved with to date.
Michael

I am surely not the only person who is in persuit of the "perfect edge". Since starting this thread my methods of getting one has led me an unexpected conclusion. This type of an edge is great for cutting into whiskers but by any measure I could think of is not the best straight razor edge. It might be good for a microtome, but proper shaving techniques utilize scything motions. These motions lower the effective shaving angle.
If a edge is so smooth, as sharp as it might be, loose effectiveness while scything.

You know Kingfish it would be a grand plan for me to get rid of tape. I did a few without and later lost track as some few others have experienced. the easiest "repair" was to go back to the plastic protector.

One of the elements, for me at least, to label any sharp as the perfect edge would be that it is easily restored. Taping resists the ultimate simplicity of ready to work without much ado.

reading of your adventures has inspired me to eliminate that extra step

'Wonderful thread, Gents

By ignorance & pure dumb luck, I tried two different methods w/ my humble C12K. I tried to do the last strokes on a dry stone, and then tried adding a layer of tape before the last dry stokes. I was stunned by the improvement in sharpness, though is wasn't necc. the smoothest. Comments about scary sharp need no explanation to me.

It may also have clarified a post by hi_bud_gl that I didn't understand. I hold his observations in very high esteem (I'm a 90 day noob) He mentioned that for every layer of tape in honing, you must reduce your blade angle while shaving. This seemed counter-intuitive to me. (I don't doubt it - he's probably forgotten more than I'll ever know about it) If a straight line were drawn from the contact edge of the spine to the cutting edge, it could not be a straight line, as it would have to go around the minute amount of metal of the original bevel to get to the edge. Of course, stropping and skin have no trouble making this minute curve. But it would seem that the shaving angle would be larger, not smaller - to access the edge. That was before I shaved w/ the edge - which is quite a bit more sharp. The added sharpness makes all kinds of sense why Sham would say the angle will need to be smaller. My face would be sashimi if I didn't decrease the shaving angle.

I'd also like to comment on this thread. It's been a real eye opener to someone just learning honing. Obviously, I've got a long way to go in honing at regular angles before I'll feel the need to start trying this stuff out, but the ideas and theories behind it is just fascinating! Thanks guys!

Hope no one minds bumping an old thread

I received a 30k Shapton for Christmas (I was floored, honestly), and just gave 15-20 featherlight (too light?) strokes with tape to a SchoenBurg that was previously finished with a 16k shapton and CrOx.

This being my first try with the stone and my first attempt at microbevels I wasn't expecting much, and in fact I didn't really notice any difference at all in the edge, in fact it may have degraded slightly. I noticed Tom mentioned using less strokes and more, I didn't see an update on the 200+ stroke test, but I'm guessing that's more to the tune of what I needed-- I saw absolutely no change in slurry color, either my strokes were simply too light out of nervousness or there wasn't enough of them. This in contrast with the 16k which shows abrasion after only a few strokes.

I was going to try again later starting from the 8k and doing a proper go at it without CrOx this time of course, but was curious if there was any new insight into this technique, especially since recently "overhoning" has been called into question the scene may have changed.