Thread: Sharpening Systems = More Stones Better Results???

Here is a thought that has been forming for awhile now, in fact since I bought the whole Naniwa system this past summer...

That made my third "system"

I have the Nortons, and the Shaptons too..

Now when I bought these things I knew I would end up with the whole thing (OCD ya know)
I knew the 5k Naniwa and the 10k Naniwa were over kill and I really didn't need them, but hey my brain needed to have them there...

I have since added the 6k Shapton also

So on the Nanaiwas I have the 400-1k-3k-5k-8k-10k-12k
in the Shapton system I have the 500-1k-2k-4k-6k-8k-16k-30k
the Norton has just the 1k-4k-8k

So now after a 5 months and hundreds of razors here is what I am finding...

First let me say this isn't necessary by any means, you can do just fine with a bevel setter and a polisher and a ton of time and work...

But I am equating what I am finding basically to sanding grits the more grits you use the easier the work, and smoother the end product...

It seems that the edges I am getting are actually smoother, maybe because of less strokes and more stones I am not sure but it really seems to be working that way... At this stage of the game I am all about smoothness, in my eyes anyone can get sharp, but to get both takes talent...Whoops just to clarify for the "Too Sharp" crowd I mean "wicked sharp" & smooth, not sorta sharp and smooth, anyone can do that too...
The one draw back of course is the cost, more stones = more money, BUT that might not be true in the long run..I am thinking that there is also less wear on each stone so maybe the stones will last longer... (not really a issue unless you are a Honemiester)

I am by no means saying go buy more stones, you all know me well enough that I would never say that, but if you have the full sets, give this a try, don't skip the in betweens, and see if you find the same results...

I think that when the geometry is good, no frowns, no uneven bevels etc. more stones do not hurt.
When you have to do some rolling X and such to account for geometry then the more stones the bigger chance to make a mistake.
May be with experience it does not matter at the end?

Originally Posted by mainaman

I think that when the geometry is good, no frowns, no uneven bevels etc. more stones do not hurt.
When you have to do some rolling X and such to account for geometry then the more stones the bigger chance to make a mistake.
May be with experience it does not matter at the end?

Good point, that did not occur to me at all....
I haven't been adding any to the total number of strokes though.... I have just been spreading them out over more stones... so in my mind the risk would still be the same...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Good point, that did not occur to me at all....
I haven't been adding any to the total number of strokes though.... I have just been spreading them out over more stones... so in my mind the risk would still be the same...

This is very reasonable explanation.
Another question, in your opinion is it possible just one out of line stroke on finer grits ruin the whole honing job at previous grits?
I am sure one mistake @ low grits ruins the edge but somehow can't accept that and off stroke @ say 8k + will do any significant damage?

Me being a guy who contracted the HAD right off the git go, I've got a mess of natural stones as well as the Nortons, Shapton professionals, Spydercos and Naniwas. For a long while I took a shotgun approach.

I pretty much stayed with keeping Shaptons with Shaptons , Nortons with Nortons but I jumped around from one system to the other so often that I wasn't really getting to know any of them well.

Talking about learning the nuances of the particular series of hones. For the past few months .... or however long it has been since I got the Naniwa Superstones I have disciplined myself to stay with them. I've gotten to know what to expect with them and feel that I can put them on the shelf and get to know one of the other sets now.

All of the above are good but IME whatever you get, the best thing to do is to work with them until you know them really well for best results.

Originally Posted by mainaman

This is very reasonable explanation.
Another question, in your opinion is it possible just one out of line stroke on finer grits ruin the whole honing job at previous grits?
I am sure one mistake @ low grits ruins the edge but somehow can't accept that and off stroke @ say 8k + will do any significant damage?

I would tend to agree with your statement "within reason" of course.. But yes the higher the grit the less change that occurs with each stroke...
The biggest honing "mistake" to watch for is coming off the edge of the stone at an angle and sliding the bevel on the stone edge, that will wreck what you have accomplished to that point...

Which brand do you find gives you the best results?

Are you finishing on a different brand following honing on the nortons?

It really depends on the razor to which system I use...
Don't get the wrong idea here, any of these systems will work, on any razor really...

But I tend to go to the Nortons for older heavy Sheffields...
The Naniwas for German and American full hollows..
The Shaptons for just about anything..

As too a finisher after the Nortons, it is usually an extra fine Coticule I have, if anything...The Norton 8k is quite capable of producing a very fine edge all on it's own...

I've benn honing not for long time, but recently and suprisingly found that I get better results skiping 10k-so 5k, 8k, really couple of strokes on 12k and stropping is giving much better results

I have recently switched to adding all of the Shaptons because I was seeing flaws from earlier stones that were not getting fixed to my satisfaction, and if I did use the "skipped" stone to fix them, I risked breaking down the edge by doing too many strokes, and/or by adding pressure. That is of course, my problem, and my solution of adding all the stones seems to be working until my technique really gets there.

By going 1k,2k,3k,4kJP,6kJP,8kJP I also realized that the 4KJP is really a polishing stone, as far as the feel goes compared to the 3K. I was surprised at this difference, so I am of the mind that by the 3K level, the bevel must be set, and at 4K+, it starts polishing. Since I tend to do too many strokes in general, I have been using the 2K, 3K, and 4K to really get a "clean" edge, and then limiting my strokes on the 6k and 8k +.

I do feel like 10-20 strokes on each can't be doing anything, but at the same time, under the scope, it reveals a much different story. It's almost as if the 4K is the truly defined edge, and the rest of the stones are spent reducing he peaks made up to that point.

Edit: I also think that by seeing the results of each small step nder the scope has helped to reveal the things I do correctly (and incorrectly...), as well as getting me very intimately associated with each stone's role in the sharpening process.