Thread: doesn't look right

Antique Primitive Folding Straight Razor from 1634 by Locksmith Robert Pease | eBay

Does this look like a razor from 1634 to you?

With limited knowledge of very old razors and just as a guess, I would say it could be from that time period. Interested to see what those knowledgeable in the field of very old razors have to say.

Bob

Why on EARTH would they want to sell a family heirloom like that is beyond me!! Keep it in the family and pass it down!!

I am no expert either. From what I have seen this looks more like a 1775 or newer. That is why I was wondering what others thought. It is way more than I want to spend anyway. I was more interested in the history. They seem to have the provenance, but that doesn't mean it is true or even the same razor.

The only way I would pay that would be if it was from my own family. If it was legit and in my family I would pay 3 times that. Smh

Well the family history looks OK. A member of the family wrote this in the late 1800s:



The razor looks about right too. This one is from 1612:



This one is from 1670:



and this one is not so accurately dated, but comes from the 17th century:



The 1670 one is of particular interest. It is dated 1670 by the artist (this is a small detail of a still-life scene painted by a Dutch artist) but look at the tail - one in the eye for those who try to assign dates by tail shape!

The tang on the razor in the auction is reminiscent of a French razor (tail-less) but it appears to jut out too far and is a little ragged, so it was probably some kind of stub tail that has been damaged, in my opinion.

Without a makers mark or name on the actual razor, then all the history and documentation are useless - it might as well be any razor, not necessarily made by a locksmith. The Art of the Locksmith goes back a long, long way. In the 17th century a good locksmith would be asked to provide intricately detailed locks for churches and public buildings, so the art was a thing in its own right, like that of the razorsmith. I can see a blacksmith of this era making razors - the french excelled at this niche, but a locksmith seems to be a bit debateable, though I might be far off the mark here.

It is a bit like selling a thuringian as an Escher as far as I am concerned - it has to have a name on it.

Regards
Neil

Well at least it answered part of my question. I did not think that particular blade shape went that far back. I had one with similar shape from known maker. So I know it is not that old, but was trying to date it and came up with 1775 based on the shape and style. So mine may be a bit older than I thought only a few years though.

Originally Posted by rideon66

Well at least it answered part of my question. I did not think that particular blade shape went that far back. I had one with similar shape from known maker. So I know it is not that old, but was trying to date it and came up with 1775 based on the shape and style. So mine may be a bit older than I thought only a few years though.

The only way to date a razor is by the makers mark and/or name. Guessing according to features, style, tang etc can only get you in a very big ballpark, and even then you might be wrong.

Even if you have a known mark or maker, that is of little help if the family carried on the business for generations using the same mark, or if the mark was bought by another maker, as is so often the case.

Of course there is no harm in hazarding a guess, but that is all it will ever be - a mere guess.

Regards,
Neil

It didn't sell.

I am more interested in the types of razors and how far back that type goes. I was under the impression that razors this early looked more like a hatchet. I thought it was late 1600 early 1700 before they even had real straights and then 1740 till huntsman invented cast steal that we saw the real design evolve.

Originally Posted by rideon66

It didn't sell.

I am more interested in the types of razors and how far back that type goes. I was under the impression that razors this early looked more like a hatchet. I thought it was late 1600 early 1700 before they even had real straights and then 1740 till huntsman invented cast steal that we saw the real design evolve.

Your assumptions are erroneous, as demonstrated in the posts above. You are 'generalising' way too much - shear steel, double sheer steel, etc razors were around well before Huntsman's time, and in 'proper' razor shape. Before this we had wrought iron razors with an edge of decent hard tempered steel.

The design has been evolving for a very long time indeed, from odd looking 'hatchet' shapes to 'jack-knife' shapes to very elegant 1700s shapes, to razors that look more like their modern counterparts, to modern shapes, to a 'dark ages' decline of razors in the 1960s, to more modern shapes, to shapes that hark back to the past to monstrous-looking absurdities that are ultra-modern and over-priced.

Huntsman, by the way, was not even interested in open razors. He was a watchmaker by trade and wanted to make better steel than he could obtain from english and german steelsmiths. He was a steel master, as I am sure you must know.

Regards,
Neil