I completely disagree that market manipulation is unethical. it is just one sided usually, that's unethical. take gas prices, we are GOUGED, absolutely butt raped by the gasoline companies that post massive profits. personally I minimize my driving, am very careful, but I still need to drive. if I were in a big city with good public transportation (which look at the US thanks to lawmakers workign with gas companies and working with auto makers, horrible public transportation as a whole). so we are dependent on private transportation. if both sides could manipulate it I think it is a good thing. that too is free market. the market determines the goods and prices right?

but I'm getting a bit sidetracked. I am talking about pals going heads up sometimes and to the detriment of each other. I can see where a seller would hate it. I just emailed a friend something I was looking at on the bay, he said he'd been watching it too, I am waiting to hear how bad he wants it because I won't bid against it on him, even though i really want it.

auctions by their nature get our competitive juices flowing and we pay more than things are worth. take barret jackson auctions, I've watched cars go on there that I've seen identical go for less local and on the craigslist.

and the market is flaky. you may have something great but the right buyer doesn't see it. I'm selling some gun parts right now that I know what they're worth and normally they'd MOVE but because apparently people are holding off on big gun projects no bites yet even though I dropped the price a bit.

and again, I don't bid more than I think things are worth, as I don't like the idea of being upside down in a deal.

Glen, contact me if you ever start another clandestine group

Red