Thread: Should it be like this?

Hello gents,

I'm pretty new here; done a lot of reading and a little posting. Just finished my second straight razor shave, and I have some questions. (For background, I've got the dreaded combination of dark heavy beard & sensitive skin. Also, for some reason, my beard grows really fast. If I go for more than a day without shaving, it becomes quite a project.)

I used to use a Mach3, but switched to DE shaving about eight months ago. I'm very comfortable with that now, and have been getting great shaves for quite a while - either pretty close and irritation-free or BBS with slight irritation on my neck. My setup is:

Prep: Hot shower, Proraso pre/post, C&E Best badger brush, one of several soaps (Honeybee unscented, C&E Nomad soap) or creams (Proraso green tube, Kiss My Face unscented, Tom's of Maine mint) - usually augmented with some of the KMF for added lubrication.

Shave: Gillette Slim adjustable w/Feather blade. I usually have to change the blade after 3 shaves.

Post-shave: Hot water rinse, cold water rinse, Alum bar (usually), more cold water, Thayer's Witch Hazel, and either Proraso pre/post or Nivea Sensitive formula for ASB.

Moving to the world of straight razors, I bought a Wostenholm 5/8 full-hollow (thank you Neale, and Joe - I think - for the gorgeous purpleheart scales!), combo 4-sided pasted paddle strop from Tony Miller, and Lynn's DVD.

Pre-shave prep as above. Stropping carefully and slowly on the leather side of the paddle (x-pattern) 30 times for first shave; then 50 for second shave. The blade passes the hanging hair test.

Okay, here are my questions/problems:

1) The main question, really. The shave feels very rough. Should it? I keep a 30 degree angle with my skin, move the razor at a slight angle (which does help a bit to slice through), and take short, slow strokes. But it still feels rough, with pulling of hairs, and it's an effort.

2) I do three passes - WTG, XTG, and XTG again - same as with the DE. But, though I cut whiskers each time, I can't get anywhere near as close as with the DE.

3) A lot of irritation. The usual problem areas on my neck, but now everywhere else, too. Particularly the chin.

4) How do you do the areas midway between the adam's apple and the side of the neck? There's a bit of a hollow there, and no matter how I stretch the skin, I can't quite seem to work out a technique. I could do this with a DE, but the longer blade of the straight keeps gettinng in the way - no matter which part of the blade I try to use, another part of it makes unwanted contact with another part of my neck. (Does this make sense? Hard to put into words!)

I know my technique will need to develop over time, but I'm a bit puzzled that it should feel so bad, since I understand the grain of my beard, direction of growth, etc., and have applied all I've learned from DE shaving. Could there be a problem with the razor? Neale said he used it only a few times, and he gave it a few passes over a coticule before sending it to me. I wonder if I somehow messed it up in stropping? My guess is that the razor is fine and the problems are just those of a newbie, but I want to rule it out as a possibility, of course.

One other thing: if I need to use the pasted sides of the paddle, what is the technique for that? Wet or dry? X-pattern leading with the edge (as in honing) or with the spine (as in stropping)? How many strokes on each side?

Sorry for such a long post, guys. But I figured the info might be important.

And many thanks - this place is wonderful, friendly and very helpful.

-Michael

Try reducing the angle for the first couple of passes. It's supposed to shave as close as a DE and with no irritation.

You'll probably feel more tugging than with a DE. Even if the straight is as sharp as the DE it will still tug more because the DE blades are coated with solid lubricants like teflon and suchlike. But it shouldn't be painful or even uncomfortable, just "different".

I started out on a DE as well, and have found that as my technique developed and I got better at honing that the straight removed much more whisker each pass than the DE. I can usually get by with a 1 1/2 pass shave (1 pass on cheeks and lower neck, 2 on chin and under the jaw), and will do a 2 1/2 pass shave if I need to still be BBS after work.

Techniquie is a big part of it. I have been using a straight now for a year, and I still have spots on my neck I can't get completely. I always use my DE for a final clean up pass, so don't be too worried about getting everything with a straight. The pulling you are describing sounds like a razor that is not quite sharp enough, your beard is super tough, or your angle of attack needs work. After playing with your angle of attack if you are still feeling the pulling try using the pasted sides of your paddle. Start on the lowest grit and work up to the highest grit if the razor is dull. If the razor is sharp, but needs just a bit more only use the highest grit side of the paddle. The stroke on the pasted portion of the paddle is exactly like stropping on the plain leather side. Spine leading, X-pattern, keep the razor flat, with only the weight of the blade. Go slow and take your time while using your paddle. I would not do more than 5 trips per pasted side to avoid over honing, then do a test shave. Good luck, and hang in there it will get better.

My own (limited) experiences are that 30degrees is largely arbitrary, and that as you develop your technique you will find that certain angles work better in some places then others. I tend to have the razor very flat under my chin and in teh hollows you mentioned either side of the AA, but on the cheeks and the upper parts of the neck the angle is slightly greater. I think it does come with time, some more then others. Look at my join date - I had my first str8 shave as I joined the forum, and some others are struggling still after 8-9 months to get it right.

Incidentally there is a technique called "Scything" that you should search for here in teh forums. Its very useful for the hollows in the neck, but a bit risky if you are not very coordinated. I use it, and it was a revelation for me. There is a nice diagram somewhere around that shows it in action.

There is a chance that the blade is not 100% there too - stropping seems to be the no1 culprit with newcomers. I am sure when Neale sent you the blade it was perfect, but it might do no harm to get a second blade (you know you will anyway) send it away to Lynn or another honemeister for honing, and then see if that makes any difference. I believe Lynn always sends his honed and stropped ready to shave, so you would not even need to strop it first.

Si

1) Sounds like it's not sharp enough. Who honed the blade?
2) Same as 1 above.
3) Again. An unkeen blade will make you want to muscle through the shave and this unwanted pressure can be razing
4) I like using the convex or 'smiling' shaped blades because they really help me get into these tough corners. The other thing to do is stretch the skin away from that point and over a 'hill' on your face or neck to get a better purchase on those peskies.

X

4. I have the same hollow areas. So far, I've been shaving exclusively with a round point blade and I shave those areas with the tip of the blade. I'd like to be able to shave with a spike point blade, but (so far) I haven't figured out a good way to get into those hollows except with the tip of a round-point blade (the heel doesn't fit well).

I have the same spots, I also am blessed with rubber skin and can pull the area right around to a flat point. Goodness knows how wrinkly i will be when I'm older!
I have been at this since january, and you will get very comfortable shaves with a little practice. I don't have a bbs shave without an ATG pass, which I can't get burn free at the moment but I still remain positive that I will find a way.
When I was using a DE I thought I knew every detail about the grain of my hair. Now I'm using a straight I find I have to really examine much more carefully.
Keep reading here and practice every day, there is always something new you can learn to make it easier.

Nick

Also, at a very basic level, your strokes are going to be somewhat tentative during your first few shaves. With practice, you'll become more confident in wielding the razor - which leads to better shaves. Keep at it and things will improve.

Jordan

Originally Posted by 1adam12

Techniquie is a big part of it. I have been using a straight now for a year, and I still have spots on my neck I can't get completely. I always use my DE for a final clean up pass, so don't be too worried about getting everything with a straight. The pulling you are describing sounds like a razor that is not quite sharp enough, your beard is super tough, or your angle of attack needs work. After playing with your angle of attack if you are still feeling the pulling try using the pasted sides of your paddle. Start on the lowest grit and work up to the highest grit if the razor is dull. If the razor is sharp, but needs just a bit more only use the highest grit side of the paddle. The stroke on the pasted portion of the paddle is exactly like stropping on the plain leather side. Spine leading, X-pattern, keep the razor flat, with only the weight of the blade. Go slow and take your time while using your paddle. I would not do more than 5 trips per pasted side to avoid over honing, then do a test shave. Good luck, and hang in there it will get better.

Thank you, all, for the great advice. I really appreciate it.

Adam, I did wind up doing 5 trips on each pasted side. It made a BIG improvement. But I can still feel it pulling, no matter what angle I use. Do you think I should do a few more trips, maybe just on the highest grit? I certainly don't want to overhone, but my instinct tells me there's still room for improvement.

Also, I've got two other razors and I've contacted Lynn about honing them. So then I'll have a standard for reference. But that may take a while (shipping, Lynn's time, shipping back to me...)