Thread: How Long from Dull to Sharp?

Originally Posted by Leon

Come on, guys! This is the newbies corner. I'm a newbie, and I don't have a collection of stones. I'm starting to straight shave for a few months now. I only have an Arkansas stone. Do newbies in general have a "collection of stones" ranging from 220, 1000, 4000 and 8000 grit ? That's way too expensive and complex for a newb.

Just my thoughts...

Leon,

Actually, just wet/dry sandpaper 1000 + Norton Combo will be adequate, and not that expensive.

Cheers
Ivo

Originally Posted by Bruno

... I can get even a very dull blade shaveready in less than an hour.
If the blade is in good condition and only needs minor sharpening, I can get it ready in under 20 minutes.

Really?

I mean, depending on condition I can get a razor ready with 20 passes on the Y/G Escher and 10 passes on Chromium. But getting a really dull blade shave ready in less than an hour - I can't do this. Some blades I have worked on require 30 min on 1000 to begin with (hone out chips from a wedge, for example, etc.) Then it's 4K time, and this might take a while too. And fine-tuning - it can be a long process because I need to test shave, then work more, then test again, etc.

Cheers
Ivo

As long as the shape of the bevels is still OK, 20 minutes (honing, testing and finishing) is feasible. I haven't touched up any of my razors yet (I always seem to testshave someone else's razors ), but touching up probably doesn't even need 20 minutes.

But a dull blade is usually doable in an hour. When I have a really dull blade, I tape the spine, and grind it back and forth on the 1K Norton with my fingers pressing down hard on the blade itself. 10 passes on one side, 10 passes on the other.
Even taking out small nicks goes fairly rapidly like this.

I replace the tape as soon as it wears out to prevent spine damage.

As soon as the bevels look OK I remove the tape and do 20 - 50 lighter X passes to remove the roughness and to correct the angle of the bevel. Not so much because of the tape, but because the pressure bends the blade a bit near the edge if the razor is not wedgy.

From there on standard pyramiding on the 4/8, and a couple of laps to finish it off.

Granted, if the blade is a tricky one to hone (britle steel for example) then it will take longer.
And of course if the blade is warped then the back and forth grinding is out of the window because you'd destroy the blade structure.
And there are probably lots of other scenarios where an hour is not possible.

But given a razor that has no other problems than being very dull / having chips I can get it to shave in roughly an hour.

EDIT: I think it is important to add that the HHT actually works for me (with my wife's hair) so if the hair slices cleanly off the 8K I know I only have to finish. I usually only testshave only as confirmation that the razor is ready. That is why I did not take add shaving time to my estimate of 1 hour.

I also have the 'advantage' that like Josh, my chin hairs are tough, so if a razor shaves me, it is fairly safe to assume it will shave someone else.

Originally Posted by Leon

Do newbies in general have a "collection of stones" ranging from 220, 1000, 4000 and 8000 grit ? That's way too expensive and complex for a newb.

Most guys probably start with the Norton 4k/8k combination hone. This stone will suffice for all of your honing duties, but most guys wind up adding a pasted paddle or a higher-grit finishing stone like the coticule or escher or one of the Shaptons. The big hone collections come into play when you get sucked into ebay, where "interesting" hones and "interesting" razors frolic seductively. If all you want to do is get great shaves every day with one or two razors, then the norton or a barber hone is all you really need, maybe with a chrome oxide paddle for that little extra snap.

My mainstay hones are my shaptons. While I own a substantial chunk of their range only a couple of them get regular use; the rest are just there for dealing with ebay razors.

Originally Posted by Leon

Do newbies in general have a "collection of stones" ranging from 220, 1000, 4000 and 8000 grit ? That's way too expensive and complex for a newb.

The best money you can spend on this is a pasted paddle strop by Tony Miller. I use mine regularly (every couple of weeks) and it is much easier than having finishing stones. Just my humble opinion.

As one newby honer to another the best advice I have had so far is to leave the pyramids if the blade is really dull and stay on the 4 k in sets of 20 until you feel the edge building. I know this sounds weird but you do feel a difference - more drag - and a different noise.

I can never pass a HHT but test the blade on my arm hair and when they start to ping I go on to the pyramids either agressive if they aren't quite pinging or the conservative if it's cutting nicely then strop and test!

Don't get me wrong I am not in the same county as these guys let alone the same street but I got so demoralised at first as I was pyramiding away and nothing happened. Using the above built the edge and your confidence and technique grows once you realise you can actually get a decent edge.

Good luck, keep at it!

I second Si's suggestion. Pyramids are good for polishing an edge once it's established. If you don't have the edge established, though, the strokes on the 8K are slowing you down without accomplishing much.

Good luck,
Josh

You might try a new method to check the results of honing as you proceed. I used the microscope for a while but now use intense light. The system is: Strong light source; eyeglasses (strong readers); optivisor (the strongest). You can see the reflection off the edge in the verticle and both sides in the horizontal. With the 4K the reflection will still be there but very small in width. The 8K will almost remove the reflection. The finish hones: coticule/15K Shapton will remove the reflection. The trick is to not overhone.

Monte

Originally Posted by monte6177

You might try a new method to check the results of honing as you proceed. I used the microscope for a while but now use intense light. The system is: Strong light source; eyeglasses (strong readers); optivisor (the strongest). You can see the reflection off the edge in the verticle and both sides in the horizontal. With the 4K the reflection will still be there but very small in width. The 8K will almost remove the reflection. The finish hones: coticule/15K Shapton will remove the reflection. The trick is to not overhone.

Monte

I understand how looking at the edge saves the prep and all for a test shave, but do you feel you can determine when the razor is ready with your method without test-shaving? Especially off the finishing hones - I don't really care what it looks like, I just want to feel a good edge (but I do not use your method so I have no idea how well it works)

Cheers
Ivo