Thread: HHT

Originally Posted by pcb01

I may be fairly new to this, but a) i know what a hair looks like, b) I know how to hold it between my fingers, 3) I know what a centimeter is, and 4) I know Lynn Abrams knows how to hone.

I now have three razors bought new and honed by Lynn. Not one of them "passed" the HHT at any point along the edge, with any (reasonable) thickness of hair, despite repeated trials.

And, yes, each one shaved beautifully.

The HHT means absolutely nothing, IMHO.

But I bet Lynn can take the same razor and do his HHT if he wanted to....

If it doesn't pass HHT, you should get rid of it and send it to me....

+1 with the other guys, Don't worry about it, The best test is to shave with it. That's my indicator.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

But I bet Lynn can take the same razor and do his HHT if he wanted to....

... But he can speak for himself. He has posted several times that the only valid test is the shaving test.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

But I bet Lynn can take the same razor and do his HHT if he wanted to....

These three I have that Lynn honed did the HHT with my hair and I have some super fine hair.

[quote=Bart;356865]Everyone always agrees that the TPT takes practice and one needs to learn how to interpret it. The same thing counts for probing a razor with a hanging hair.
One has to know the hair. One has to know certain things about the status of the edge. One has to calibrate his way of performing it.
I am currently working on a wiki article that offers a workable method for making the test serviceable while honing razors.

Now, you may not need it, fccexpert, and that is fine.

But it is my most used test for honing a razor, and while I always perform a test shave before sending one out, I can pretty much predict how it will shave, based on how the razor responds to the HHT before and after I strop it.
I am usually alone when I hone razors, with no audience but myself, when I sever a hanging hair. I totally don't get it why, every time this method for probing the keenness of a razor is brought up, someone that obviously doesn't use it, chimes in to dismiss it as a "parlor trick".

I looked up "parlor trick". What is a Parlor Trick?

A parlor trick it something done for the amusement/amazement of others (think "magic trick") at a social gathering (e.g., a party held in someone's "parlor"). ("Parlor" may be a regional term -- I'm from New England originally, and a parlor is roughly equivalent to a "sitting room," or "day room," or "living room," or in the early 21st Century maybe "the TV room"). The implication is that the HHT is uselss in and of itself, but may be used to amuse others or oneself. Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by pcb01

Originally Posted by Bart

I am usually alone when I hone razors, with no audience but myself, when I sever a hanging hair. I totally don't get it why, every time this method for probing the keenness of a razor is brought up, someone that obviously doesn't use it, chimes in to dismiss it as a "parlor trick".

I looked up "parlor trick". What is a Parlor Trick?

A parlor trick it something done for the amusement/amazement of others (think "magic trick") at a social gathering (e.g., a party held in someone's "parlor"). ("Parlor" may be a regional term -- I'm from New England originally, and a parlor is roughly equivalent to a "sitting room," or "day room," or "living room," or in the early 21st Century maybe "the TV room"). The implication is that the HHT is uselss in and of itself, but may be used to amuse others or oneself. Hope this helps.

Hey, pssstttt....
(whispering) Rethoric questions are not meant to be answered.
Besides that, I included the link. Wouldn't it be safe to assume that I also read it? (rethoric question)

The HHT is far less useless than you think. You may not use or need it, but that doesn't mean that other people don't have a meaningful use for it.
I shave with a straight razor because the craftiness of it appeals to me. I don't shave with a straight razor because I want to impress my friends. The same thing applies to the HHT. Do you honestly believe I would do it to impress myself while honing razors? (rethoric question)

The TNT, TPT, MMT, microscopical inspection, and the HHT are all ways to probe the edge during certain stages of honing. Some people favor one or two for those methods, some use them all, others use none. Fine with me.

So now I ask you, non-rethorically: all of us that partially rely on the HHT for knowing when to do what, at certain junctions whule honing a razor, are we all idiots?

Bart.

Originally Posted by Bart

The TNT, TPT, MMT, microscopical inspection, and the HHT are all ways to probe the edge during certain stages of honing. Some people favor one or two for those methods, some use them all, others use none. Fine with me.
Bart.

I was just getting ready to post the exact same statement.....

Huge plus 1 with ya here Bart....

Also I want to point out the the OP asked it it was an indication of sharpness NOT Shave Readiness... small subtle difference there...

Originally Posted by Bart

Hey, pssstttt....
(whispering) Rethoric questions are not meant to be answered.
Besides that, I included the link. Wouldn't it be safe to assume that I also read it? (rethoric question)

The HHT is far less useless than you think. You may not use or need it, but that doesn't mean that other people don't have a meaningful use for it.
I shave with a straight razor because the craftiness of it appeals to me. I don't shave with a straight razor because I want to impress my friends. The same thing applies to the HHT. Do you honestly believe I would do it to impress myself while honing razors? (rethoric question)

The TNT, TPT, MMT, microscopical inspection, and the HHT are all ways to probe the edge during certain stages of honing. Some people favor one or two for those methods, some use them all, others use none. Fine with me.

So now I ask you, non-rethorically: all of us that partially rely on the HHT for knowing when to do what, at certain junctions whule honing a razor, are we all idiots?

Bart.

Bart:

I am not the one who called it a parlor trick. And I certainly did not call anyone who used HHT an idiot, although I do feel like an idiot myself for wasting my time (and yours) in trying to respond to what I thought was a legitimate question asked by member of this forum.

My original posted statement earlier is and was that, IMHO, and from my experience as described, the HHT is useless (to me). I understand that it is useful to you, and I believe that to be the case. I was describing my experience in response to the initial question in the thread, which I do believe was legitimate and not rhetorical. And the "implication" you emphasized did not represent my thought -- it was what I believed the individual who posted the "parlor trick" comment was suggesting. Again, I was truly under the impression that you were not familiar with this phrase.

I did not intend to offend anyone.

Just to throw this honing newb's take on things out there.
SO FAR....if a razor passes HHT with my wife's hair....100% of these razors have given me VERY VERY VERY good shaves.
SO FAR....if a razor fails HHT with my wife's hair...100% of these razors have given POOR or TERRIBLE shaves.

So, FOR ME, and SO FAR, it is a very usefull test. I could, however, live without it, and use other tests. Until it fails me, though, I will continue to use it.

Originally Posted by pcb01

Bart:

I am not the one who called it a parlor trick. And I certainly did not call anyone who used HHT an idiot, although I do feel like an idiot myself for wasting my time (and yours) in trying to respond to what I thought was a legitimate question asked by member of this forum.

My original posted statement earlier is and was that, IMHO, and from my experience as described, the HHT is useless (to me). I understand that it is useful to you, and I believe that to be the case. I was describing my experience in response to the initial question in the thread, which I do believe was legitimate and not rhetorical. And the "implication" you emphasized did not represent my thought -- it was what I believed the individual who posted the "parlor trick" comment was suggesting. Again, I was truly under the impression that you were not familiar with this phrase.

I did not intend to offend anyone.

PCB,

I'm sorry for making such a harsh statement to your post. What you could not know, being relatively new to the forums, was that on every single thread about the HHT, people that use nor know the HHT, chime in to tackle all intelligent discussion with the "parlor trick" dismissal. I kinda had it with that, but I shouldn't have directed that to you.

As for the HHT, you might have no use for it right now, or not even ever at all. I don't know if you are honing your own razors, but if you do, or intent to in the future, here are a few finer points that I consider important for turning the HHT in a successful probing method.

1. Use clean human hair, that was harvested when it was freshly washed. I recommend keeping a small strand of hair with a length of about 2.5" in a little container, so you can always rely on the same hair.
2. Hold the hair between thumb and index finger at the root side. The outer hull of a hair, called "cuticle" is a single layer of cells arranged like roof shingles. Once the edge of a razor catches between those shingles, there is no escape: the hair will be severed (or sliced lengthwise). For this reason the hair must be held at the root side and the razor may be angled slightly to allow it to catch the hair better.
3. Moisten the hair prior to the test. Hair is extremely hygroscopic. The inner part takes up moisture very quickly, expanding and causing the cuticle shingles to open up a bit. This is the main reason why we prep our beard prior to shaving it, and for the same reason we should prep the hair before performing the HHT.
Furthermore, wetting the hair rules out any significant differences in relative humidity that may affect the outcome of the test at various moments. A valid way to moisten the hair, is to run it between a wetted thumb and index finger and wait a few seconds for the hair to adapt.

When these 3 terms are met, the HHT becomes much more calibrated, and you'd be surprised how consistently it can tell you things about the edge at various honing stages.

There are several results to be discerned. Here's my personal scale:
HHT 0 (zero): the hair can be shaved immediately at the holding point. This is strictly spoken not a true HHT, but it does tell us that the edge is capable of shaving.

[all other attempts must be made at least half an inch from the holding point)

HHT 1: the hair doesn't cut, but it "plays violin" with the edge. This is due to the shingles catching the edge, but it's not sharp enough to penetrate. On a full hollow razor, a faint ringing sound can be heard. On all razors it can be felt with the fingertips that hold the hair.

HHT2: When it is dragged across the edge, the edge catches the hair and splits it lengthwise

HHT 3: When it is dragged across the edge a bit, the edge catches the hair and pops it. The severed part will jump away.

HHT 4: The hair is popped immediately when it touches the edge. It still jumps away.

HHT 5: The hair falls silently as soon as it touches the edge.

These results all have different meanings at different honing stages. For further explanation, you'll have to await my wiki article on this topic, but I can reveal that I find the HHT especially usefull for knowing when a bevel is fully developed and also for reaching the desired keenness before finishing the edge and during the very first stropping session (which is often underestimated, imo).

Best regards,
Bart.