Thread: Belgian coticule, clarifications

We had a member years ago on the old Yahoo forum that really liked natural stones and used them dry. He was successful with it, but it really never caught on considering all the other media out there.

Lynn

Originally Posted by kevint

that is quite similar to what I've tried. A few light laps to finish off; using the same previously wet hone. I could never decide if the dryness helped or if I had simply finally reached an acceptable count. It did not seem to harm anything. Now it is beginning to become a long time since i did more than a touch up where i am a little scared to grab a truly dry hone. I've had good results with soapy water

I keep meaning to try soapy water and then forget at the last minute. Got to try it next time.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

This dry technique is reminiscent of a something similar that Glen (gssixgun) posted not long ago in reference to the Norton 8K here . Not quite the same thing but I'm interested in trying it with a coticule. I just can't bring myself to hone absolutely dry.

Same works good on awasedo as well

I'm with you; a dry stone that has been sitting for some time drying alll day +. I just don't like the feel

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

This dry technique is reminiscent of a something similar that Glen (gssixgun) posted not long ago in reference to the Norton 8K here . Not quite the same thing but I'm interested in trying it with a coticule. I just can't bring myself to hone absolutely dry.

Just for absolute clarity, to less experienced Coticule users: There's no use in trying it with slurry on the hone. Slurry running dry will only smother the edge. We're talking about letting the water on a Coticule run dry, or honing on a completely dry one.

Thought I 'd mention that.

Bart.

The coticule is an 8000 grit stone which puts it firmly in the camp of "finishing stones". To set or reset a bevel you need a much coarser stone or you'll be honing forever. I reset bevels on a Shapton 1k or a DMT8E (1200 grit). It should take only a couple of minutes. Once you've got the bevel right from heel to toe on both sides, then progress upwards through the belgian blue 4k and then the coticule 8k. Use the right tool for the right job.

Assigning grit values to coticules and belgian blues isn't worthless but it also isn't a 1 to 1 comparison with say a Norton or a DMT. Well before Norton was founded in the late 1800s and DMT in the '70s, there were the natural stones coming out of Europe and they included the finest grits - belgians and eschers and the medium grits such as the Tam O'Shanters, Blue Dalmores, Charnley Forest, etc. There just aren't comparable standards between natural stones and artifiicial stones but that doesn't mean it's a useless comparison.

Jimmy,
Dry honing is a valid technique and let me encourage you to try it. Dry honing with Arkansas stones is the only way to go in my opinion. Just be careful with the coticules that you move the blade over the whole surface of the stone so you don't wear a groove. For reference, check out John Juranitch's "The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening" as he was my inspiration to start dry honing about 27 years ago. He also holds the Guiness record for fastest shave with a double bitted axe although his son may hold it by now.

Originally Posted by Howard

The coticule is an 8000 grit stone which puts it firmly in the camp of "finishing stones". To set or reset a bevel you need a much coarser stone or you'll be honing forever. I reset bevels on a Shapton 1k or a DMT8E (1200 grit). It should take only a couple of minutes. Once you've got the bevel right from heel to toe on both sides, then progress upwards through the belgian blue 4k and then the coticule 8k. Use the right tool for the right job.

I'm honestly not looking for an argument here, not least with you, Howard who know much more than I've learnt yet. However, my coticule exhibits 4-6000 (? I'm still playing with it, I'm not sure) grit quality with slurry. 8-10000(?) with water, and 10000+ dry (when compared to the two barbers hones that I have and presume are about 10000).

Everything that you say is correct, eg it would take a mad time to set or reset a bevel with a coticule (I'm going to try it with a, probably, Sheffield wedge no less, because I'm mad/stupid/curious but that's immaterial). Seriously, 8000 is a very precise number and the coticules don't fit that. I understand the idea that it might be a better idea for new guys to be steered towards more quantifiable stones, but as a relative newbie myself, I love the versatility of the coticule.

Hopefully, this is not just a rerun of an old argument for you, but even if it is, please give us the benefit of your knowledge and opinion.

Edit. All above stands but just read your subsequent posts and you seem to be answering some of my stuff. Am reading with interest.

Originally Posted by Howard

The coticule is an 8000 grit stone which puts it firmly in the camp of "finishing stones". To set or reset a bevel you need a much coarser stone or you'll be honing forever. I reset bevels on a Shapton 1k or a DMT8E (1200 grit). It should take only a couple of minutes. Once you've got the bevel right from heel to toe on both sides, then progress upwards through the belgian blue 4k and then the coticule 8k. Use the right tool for the right job.

I disagree with this statement. Coticule garnet size is 5 to 15 micron. I don't like correlating that to grit, but it's closer to 1K than to 8K. There is variance in speed between Coticules, but so there is between different DMT-1200's. The more use a DMT has seen, the slower it performs. With coticules the speed variance is related to how well the stone releases fresh garnets in the slurry during the honing process.
When used with slurry, the Coticules I've tried fast enough to be able to do the work of a 1K hone.
The performance completely chances when no slurry is raised. The garnets remain embedded in the surface, on most Coticules no new garnets emerge while honing, and the Coticule is a very slow polisher in that mode. That verstaility is, as far as I know, exlusive to Coticule hones.

Apart from repairing damage, razors can be honed on nothing but one Coticule. Add a DMT 325 and a 600, and you have all your ever need for restoring and honing razors.

There are many other hones, that work equally well, and in the search of ulterior keenness, one of the modern very high grit synthetics might come in handy, albeit not completely necessary.

I have honed 4 razors on Sunday, that were all dull beyond shaving arm hair, a few of them had a double bevel. All were honed on one single Coticule (I used a different stone for each one). No pasting. Only stropping on a clean leather strop. I had the time to test them today. They all performed excelllent.
It took me about 15 minutes per razor.

I'll post the method in a new thread later on tonight.

Bart.

Originally Posted by Bart

I'll post the method in a new thread later on tonight.

Bart.

Cool, I look forward to it.