Thread: Stropping only on pasted strops

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I think stropping in general is the least understood part of our hobby, and more people other then just mparker and AFdavis need to do some serious experimenting....

I have for a long time believed the stropping on pasted strops creates a concave edge and eventually you have to hone...I am not as convinced of this any more.
We here at SRP tend to be a hone based forum, we are all about the hones, strops are a distant second, the red headed step child of keeping our razors sharp... I think we are going to eventually find that the strops and stropping in general are much more important then we realized....

I think you're right Glen. I have followed mparker's and Alan's posts on stropping since I've been around. I must have read this thread here more times than I could count. I have been really concentrating on my stroke with stropping and not doing it on auto pilot . I personally only use a pasted strop, paddle, flatbed, blasa.... occasionally if I feel the razor 'needs' it. My daily driver is clean leather and webbed fabric.

I agree completely, Glen. I never bought into the argument that a pasted edge needs more attention to keep it keen than a honed edge. I'm not saying that I don't believe that necessarily, my argument to that is that I don't see increased maintenance as a serious detraction. My pasted paddles are easily accessible. A few passes on them to refresh more often that a re-hone, I don't see the downside.

I'm experimenting a ton with pastes right now and intend on exploring it a bunch more. I'm still cautious on how I feel about pastes in general (other than chrome ox which for me is a proven ingredient in my honing process) but time will solidify my experiences with the pastes.

Chris L

If you strop on something fairly rigid, like balsa or pine the rounding problem would be reduced. You could also use lapping films on glass which should completely get rid of it.

Riooso, are you saying that you did this for a year (on leather?) and that by the end the final edge was obtuse enough to shave noticeably worse? Did you measure how much more obtuse it was?

I think because honing on a typical hone is the classic way to maintain an edge people tend to kind of look down on the strop way to maintain an edge. So we tend to look for bad stories about what happens if you only use a strop down the road. Like Glen I'm not so sure about the negatives we hear about using a strop. I don't think I have ever actually read a post here where someone has said gee I've been maintaining my edge for a year and a half on a strop and now my razor won't shave worth a damn and now I had to use a hone and its great again. Yes I've seen pictures of edges and stories concerning theory but no real experiences.

I'm thinking more and more it's an all roads lead to Rome type of thing.

Originally Posted by jimmyh

If you strop on something fairly rigid, like balsa or pine the rounding problem would be reduced. You could also use lapping films on glass which should completely get rid of it.

Riooso, are you saying that you did this for a year (on leather?) and that by the end the final edge was obtuse enough to shave noticeably worse? Did you measure how much more obtuse it was?

The strop that I use is a Tony Miller 4 sided strop and it has leather on each side. What happens is that pretty soon you end with a razor that will not hold an edge very long at all, like 4 shaves instead of at least 10. Stropping is a dragging motion and honing is a cutting action, very different methods of sharpening.

I consider a 4 sided strop and a 8EE diamond plate one of the very best ways for a beginner to keep a razor very sharp, and at the same time the total investment is about $100. You will learn a lot and when it is time to move up to some hones you will have been shaving with a straight for at least 7 months. I consider this absolutely key to straight shaving, get the new guy shaving and liking it. This is not magic! Straight shaving is learned but the last thing a new guy needs to worry about is getting into stones, he is overwhelmed already.

I still use 0.50,0.25 diamond and Chromium pastes to finish my honing session. I only use about 6 laps on the Chromium because I don't want to completely kill the 0.25 paste edge. As I stated earlier I got a 16K Shapton (0.92 microns) to replace the 1.0 diamond paste. I spent the money gradually and picked what I wanted as my knowledge grew. I eventually got a Coticule and I really feel that I am pretty much done for a while. All the while I have been getting absolutely fantastic shaves because from the very beginning I have shaved with very sharp razors, I mean sharp!


Take Care,
Richard

Thanks for the responses.

. What happens is that pretty soon you end with a razor that will not hold an edge very long at all, like 4 shaves instead of at least 10.

You mean pasted strop then unpasted strop for 10 shaves then repeat and after a while you only get 4 shaves between pasted strops?

I'm having a hard time seeing what could be going on there, but if you do a couple passes on the pasted strop each time, then it doesn't matter if the edge can make it 'only 4 shaves'.

Originally Posted by jimmyh

Thanks for the responses.



You mean pasted strop then unpasted strop for 10 shaves then repeat and after a while you only get 4 shaves between pasted strops?

I'm having a hard time seeing what could be going on there, but if you do a couple passes on the pasted strop each time, then it doesn't matter if the edge can make it 'only 4 shaves'.

I'm sorry! I use a leather hanging strop before every shave, 70 laps. When you only get about 4 shaves between using the pasted strop, you have to drop back to the 8EE. I am talking about 8 or 10 laps on the 8K and 10 or less on each of the diamond steps. The diamond plate cuts pretty quickly. Eventually even taking it down to an 8k will not help much so you have to send it out and have the bevel reset, but that will be many months down the road, probably a year. If you use the 8k after about 10 or 15 shaves then longer than a year and would guess years. By the standards a lot of these guys have this is a very crude setup, but it works!, I have done it. This is a dirt cheap way to use a razor and still get very good quality edges.

If you are going to be straight shaving as a life style you will have to get and use some good hones. I bought a Coticule which will let you reset a bevel if it is not to far gone otherwise you have to go to a 1K stone,which I also bought. The point is that, in the beginning, stones that drop down to 4K or 1K are not needed by the beginner and will probably cause damage in the wrong hands.

My two cents.

A lot depends on technique. Watch carefully and follow your hand as you strop. Then follow the blade itself. How does the blade set on the strop before you start? Does your hand lift the blade slightly on edge as you finish a stroke or does it remain flat? Does the whole blade cross the leather with each stroke? Is each pass just like the last one? Do your strokes vary between each pass? Do you notice a negative difference in your razor when you rush the stropping? Do you give the strop too much give, is it too taut when you strop? Do you use quality leather? Is the leather supple or dried out?

Pastes on leather, in a way, turn a strop into a hone. Improper stropping can help create a concave in the blade and round out the tip on the razor with bad technique, add pastes to the strop and it quickens the damage.

IMHO,there is in no need of strop pastes, I do not know when abrasive pastes were invented, but if they were not needed 200 years ago, they are not needed today. The use of pastes may have been made for those who did not have quality hones, the paste served their purpose well and keep up a quality they were happy with. Heck, a lot of people use strops for their pocket knives and such, and they do not own a razor.

Not addressing and fixing ones consistent mistakes in stropping will lead to having to hone more often than would be needed.

I have not noticed a need to hone a blade often that was stropped properly. As we know, honing cuts the blade, too much or too often will shorten the life of a blade.

All this leads to the advice of having several blades in ones rotation. This will help preserve each razor.

Being methodical and observant will save a razor.

Originally Posted by ChrisL

I agree completely, Glen. I never bought into the argument that a pasted edge needs more attention to keep it keen than a honed edge. I'm not saying that I don't believe that necessarily, my argument to that is that I don't see increased maintenance as a serious detraction. My pasted paddles are easily accessible. A few passes on them to refresh more often that a re-hone, I don't see the downside.

I'm experimenting a ton with pastes right now and intend on exploring it a bunch more. I'm still cautious on how I feel about pastes in general (other than chrome ox which for me is a proven ingredient in my honing process) but time will solidify my experiences with the pastes.

Chris L

Chris,

Lemme know if, for the sake of science, you want a bunch of Picassos to annoint with your test pastes. They are a snap to make so long as I have the scrap materials.

Originally Posted by Kees

See also my post above. I cannot get my TI Silverwing shave-sharp without cromium oxide paste. I honed about 50 razors with good results using hones only but the TI is an exception. TI recommend their paddle strop for maintenance: one side pasted leather, the other side plain leather.

TI recently changed the steel they use. Maintenance recommendations are adapted to the needs of the tool to be maintained and vice versa. So that may explain why pastes may be a better choice this day and age for modern razors.

Interesting that you say that, Kees. I have a Super Gnome that I believe is made from the new TI steel. I've honed it to shaving sharp using stones then finishing on diamond and chrome ox for the higher grits. This razor has had numerous test shaves and the edge is still not to my liking. It seems to be a very hard steel. I continue to work with it.......

Originally Posted by Bruce

Chris,

Lemme know if, for the sake of science, you want a bunch of Picassos to annoint with your test pastes. They are a snap to make so long as I have the scrap materials.

Wow, this is a very kind gesture, Bruce. I will most likely take you up on it. I'll PM you when I receive my abrasives. Incidentally, the "tulip wood" paddle you made was impressively flat. I pencil marked the surface, took my granite surface plate and a sheet of 200+ grit regular sandpaper and the pencil marks were gone in just a handful of figure eights.

Chris L