Thread: Thumb test -- how does it work?

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Try learning and practicing both techniques and decide which you feel is the most effective for you. I'm in the 'along' the blade camp.

I've used them both, but like I said it's really a moot point in my honing because I don't do any of the tests after 4k. I was just curious how some of you guys can authoritatively say that something is either right or wrong. I'm a big fan of phrases like "I think", "it seems", "apparently", etc. I'm not a big fan of right and wrong because sometimes authoritative statements are proven wrong... Maybe not on this, but it's happened here before.

Originally Posted by richmondesi

I've used them both, but like I said it's really a moot point in my honing because I don't do any of the tests after 4k. I was just curious how some of you guys can authoritatively say that something is either right or wrong. I'm a big fan of phrases like "I think", "it seems", "apparently", etc. I'm not a big fan of right and wrong because sometimes authoritative statements are proven wrong... Maybe not on this, but it's happened here before.

Everything is trial and error. Whatever works.

Originally Posted by richmondesi

So, is it the consensus that because the barber's manual described it that way that it's "the gospel"?

No, barbering textbooks were obviously written by people who were teaching a craft to apprentices who were going to do this daily for probably the rest of their lives. They only had a about 2 centuries for perfecting the methods and didactics.

With the recent straight razor revival, a lot of this knowledge was no longer readily available, so things had to be reinvented. People relied on techniques derived from other disciplines. I have been "plucking" chisels and and kitchen knives half my life. It took me a while to get the hang of a razor TPT, but I like the finer readings it gives.

I personally prefer to give people the best available advice. Alternatives can be mentioned as such.

I meet guys who suffer with stropping. They're invariably "wrist turners". At the same time, I know "wrist turners" who can strop to perfection. But I believe the most likely way to get it right, is to learn a "pinch turning" style of stropping. As advised in the barbering textbooks.

No doubt, perfect edges can be honed, using an "across" TPT. But the precisest and damage-to-the-edge preventing way is to use an "along" TPT.

Razors can also be honed and stropped without the need to touch the edge. That notion might put this discussion into perspective.

Bart.

Originally Posted by Bart

No, barbering textbooks were obviously written by people who were teaching a craft to apprentices who were going to do this daily for probably the rest of their lives. They only had a about 2 centuries for perfecting the methods and didactics.

With the recent straight razor revival, a lot of this knowledge was no longer readily available, so things had to be reinvented. People relied on techniques derived from other disciplines. I have been "plucking" chisels and and kitchen knives half my life. It took me a while to get the hang of a razor TPT, but I like the finer readings it gives.

I personally prefer to give people the best available advice. Alternatives can be mentioned as such.

I meet guys who suffer with stropping. They're invariably "wrist turners". At the same time, I know "wrist turners" who can strop to perfection. But I believe the most likely way to get it right, is to learn a "pinch turning" style of stropping. As advised in the barbering textbooks.

No doubt, perfect edges can be honed, using an "across" TPT. But the precisest and damage-to-the-edge preventing way is to use an "along" TPT.

Razors can also be honed and stropped without the need to touch the edge. That notion might put this discussion into perspective.

Bart.

Don't think that the sarcasm went unnoticed. So are you prepared to say that horsehide strops aren't adequate for drawing out a sharp edge on a razor? The manual does.

Professing to tell people the "best" advice is not different than saying you are "right". In that other thread that was linked to, virtually all first hand experience that was recounted was of barbers doing the TPT as was described in the wiki originally. I quickly read all of the posts, but I may have missed a couple. The overwhelming majority of people in that thread agreed with the Wiki article.

This kind of stuff is the only thing that I don't like about razor forums. There is way too much testosterone in these circles... We don't have to be "right", and we sure don't have to be sarcastic and dismissive of each other. I'm betting that the tone and tenor of these kinds of discussions would be significantly different if you and I were having this conversation over a cup of coffee.

Originally Posted by Bart

Razors can also be honed and stropped without the need to touch the edge. That notion might put this discussion into perspective.

Bart.

Let's be honest here. The REAL test of a razor is to shave with it. But, if you are a barber I guesss you have to come up with another way.

Originally Posted by richmondesi

Don't think that the sarcasm went unnoticed. So are you prepared to say that horsehide strops aren't adequate for drawing out a sharp edge on a razor? The manual does.

IME on this forum most guys and Bart particularly try to help each other. It isn't a case of having to be 'right'. Maybe that is just my perception ? YMMV.

As to the barber manual. I am only familiar with the excellent 1961 excerpt on honing and stropping seen here in the SRP Wiki help files. On page 27 they describe the TPT as moving the moistened thumb pad along the edge with an illustration. Not saying it is the only way or even the right way ... but I have found it to be effective IME and having tried the across method I find along to be what I use.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

IME on this forum most guys and Bart particularly try to help each other. It isn't a case of having to be 'right'. Maybe that is just my perception ? YMMV.

As to the barber manual. I am only familiar with the excellent 1961 excerpt on honing and stropping seen here in the SRP Wiki help files. On page 27 they describe the TPT as moving the moistened thumb pad along the edge with an illustration. Not saying it is the only way or even the right way ... but I have found it to be effective IME and having tried the across method I find along to be what I use.

The one from 1926 that I saw said essentially the same thing (without verbalizing it explicitly), but that's beside my point. Jimmy, the fact that Bart and other guys do try to be helpful is an established fact. But, that doesn't preclude him from posting a sarcastic and dismissive post. I've seen a lot of otherwise "helpful" members post similarly. Like I said, there's just a little too much testosterone sometimes. I hope to follow Lynn's example here.

Originally Posted by richmondesi

Don't think that the sarcasm went unnoticed.

Jeezes, Richmondesi, please have that cup of coffee.
No need to loose your temper. There was exactly as much sarcasm in my "2 centuries" statement as in your "Gospel" statement.

All posts on a forum are published in a separate frame, with the poster's name next to it. It obviously is my opinion, that plucking an extremely thin razor's edge is not the right way to probe for sharpness.
I could add "I think" or "I feel" for political correctness, but it remains my opinion that a razors edge should not be pulled across for probing of sharpness. I recommend against it. Not because I like to be right (which I do like), but because I honestly believe people will benefit from the advice and experience I try to offer. Other people will offer other advice and experience. And everyone will do in the end what he thinks is best.
That's how forums work.

By the way, I read in a post that you wrote while I was typing one of mine, that you never TPT after 4K.
May I note that in some barbering textbooks, the TPT is reserved for assessing stropping results? I personally use it mostly during the finer honing stages. Maybe that explains why we might have a different opinions and appreciations for it.

Kind and gentle greetings,
Bart.

Have I been doing it wrong, all this time? I use the method my barber taught me, which is along the edge, over the nail, not the skin.

Originally Posted by leadduck

Have I been doing it wrong, all this time? I use the method my barber taught me, which is along the edge, over the nail, not the skin.

Over the nail after stropping will undo the effect of stropping. The nail is for assessing the edge while honing only. The moistened skin is for assessing stropping.