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Thread: The Starter Set Dilemma
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04-28-2010, 05:37 PM #21
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
- Posts
- 53
Thanked: 0as a thought, since SRP as the vendor is, I agree, controversial (hey, after about 5 posts I already know that :-), SRD might make great sense. And it would be something like "choose one razor from these 5, and we'll include a 3" strop and something else." I'm a photography buff, and a filter company does that with graduated density filters. You get a holder, 1 adapter ring (though you do need rings for each lens size), and 1 grad of your choice. Yes, they have to put those 3 things together in a box but it's a great way for someone to get into grad filters.
And SRD is in the business of selling stuff.
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04-28-2010, 05:44 PM #22
I think that is the crux of the argument is that if they are all good how do you pick. Most say to pick the one that you like the best.. but if they all have black scales and shiny silver blades then what.. then I guess look at size as most recommend a 5/8 or 6/8 as a starting razor.. if they are all that as well then go with the less expensive and add that money to the additional items such as soap/strop/brush..etc.
I think the main problem is that everything in this hobby is more subjective than in most and in the majority of cases you can not just run to the local store and handle the item to see which feels better or smells to your liking.
That is probably why there are a lot of people that say look at the wiki is because it gives you a basis for that subjective decision. I have a feeling a lot of the original and older ( as in membership) members have seen so many of the similar posts if you catch them on a bad day they throw an RTFM out. Doesn't mean they are not helpful but they feel as if they have just stood there and kept talking to a 3 year old who keeps asking "Why?" for the last 30 minutes. Maybe next time they will be more graceful in their approach because they just finished shaving and are still in their meditative state but unfortunately we can't all stay in that happy place all day long.
I take all forum posts with a bucket of salt because text is emotionless and emoticons are not always the answer.
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04-28-2010, 05:49 PM #23
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
- Posts
- 53
Thanked: 0all honesty, that right there is one of the most helpful single sentences I have read over the last 1.5 weeks (which doesn't sound like that long, but you all dont' know how obsessive I get :-) ). It's definitive, it gets to the point, and because I am "wise" enough to know that even your opinion is also just your opinion, I take that with a grain of salt and for the most part will stick to what you say but leave room for my own interpretation (maybe the one that is $10 more looks "prettier" and I want to indulge that part of my psyche).
It is a very subjective process, and the inability to handle these items is frustrating. I fully recognize that.
thanks.
k.
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04-28-2010, 05:49 PM #24
Since I'm one of the moderators in charge of this section, I have read almost every single thread here.
The problems with most beginners is that they really want to be told what is the best for them, or given three options with clear distinction of what's the advantages and disadvantages of one over the other.
However, anybody who has been at this for over a year and shaved with more than a dozen of razors would know that this is an impossible task. You can take two razors and one person will find them not all that different, while another will see a day and night difference.
Furthermore everybody values different things differently. For example I would take a 100 year old razor with few bits of superficial pitting before a current production brand spanking new razor. as long as the former shaves as well as say dubl duck wonderedge. But most people wouldn't - I've ran this exact experiment and the current production razor sells within an hour, the razor, which to me is far superior shaver never sells despite being listed at half the price of the new one. I am also willing to pay big premium for excellent original condition for razors that I really like the shave of, while most people do not.
That's why most senior members have the integrity to resist the temptation of presenting their own opinions as appropriate for somebody else who they don't even know.
Every new guy has to figure out first what their own priorities are and then has to do the not so little amount of work of becoming proficient with this type of shaving. After that they will be able to decide what razors suit best their tastes and budget. There is just no shortcut around this. And yes, it's a catch-22.
I've seen hundreds if not thousands of times, on this and other forums, people who have absolutely no expertise give poor recommendations like an authority. In some cases this even becomes a hype and a product gets temporarily elevated to a 'default recommendation' status for absolutely no good reason.
In my opinion the only thing that's really sensible is to give somewhat broad guidelines. So, when I assembled the first iteration of the wiki pages I tried to do it that way in order to be objective.
But at the end of the day the ultimate responsibility is to the new guy. They can get lucky, they can learn from their mistakes, or they can be smart and figure out what's good advice even if it's not the easy answer they want to hear.
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The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to gugi For This Useful Post:
AlanII (04-30-2010), BKratchmer (04-28-2010), Del1r1um (04-29-2010), HNSB (04-28-2010), JimmyHAD (04-28-2010), LinacMan (04-28-2010), ShavedZombie (04-28-2010), Stubear (04-29-2010), wrl (04-29-2010)
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04-28-2010, 05:51 PM #25
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04-28-2010, 06:03 PM #26
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04-28-2010, 06:25 PM #27
It seems a lot of you are perhaps missing a major resource you can use - the Private Messaging system of this site.
It worked very well for me when I had the dilemma of picking a straight razor for the first time. I had a few that I thought would be good and asked a senior member who seemed very knowledgeable, helpful, and objective about his opinion.
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The Following User Says Thank You to gugi For This Useful Post:
ShavedZombie (04-28-2010)
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04-28-2010, 06:36 PM #28
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- Medina, Ohio
- Posts
- 1,286
Thanked: 530One other really important, and VERY underrated tool... The Member's Map! If you can find someone with decent experience, fairly close to you, then you can learn a metric ****ton from them in short order. You can test their razors (most guys are open to this), play with their strops, sample their brushes and lather their creams and soaps... Seriously if you can meet someone in person, DO IT! It helped me indescribably.
Cheers,
Jeremy
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04-28-2010, 08:00 PM #29
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
- Posts
- 53
Thanked: 0Jeremy - wow, really? I would find someone contacting me randomly off the map kinda creepy. I will take a look at it again, then. thanks.
Gugi - thanks. I will try to find someone willing to take my messages and help me out :-).
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04-29-2010, 01:34 AM #30
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- London
- Posts
- 4
Thanked: 0So, here's a potentially quite stupid "compromise" idea...
New folk often feel reassured if they get very concrete suggestions. We know that there is no sane one-size-fits-all concrete suggestion that any of the experienced folk here would stand by.
But what about concrete stories about how the experienced folk here started out? There are a fair few shaving superstars around here, who all seem to have very different styles and personalities. If a newbie were to identify with the style of a particular old hand, then they might feel comfortable walking in his or her footsteps while they find their own path.
So what if folk were to start using the "About me" section of their profile pages to answer the questions "What kit did you use for your first few straight shaves? What was good and bad about it?"
Do you all think that would be a neat way to reassure the new folk, or would it just cause more confusion and trouble?
Quite aside from helping out the newbies, would folk here be interested in hearing the origin stories of our local heroes?