Thread: The Starter Set Dilemma

Alembic,

If, by accident, I should have come across as defensive, I apologise. I was actually trying to help here, by pointing out that while you said you wanted to fix a perceived problem of beginners, you were actually trying to solve the underlying problem of beginners not reading the information we have compiled for them (and which contains all required information in a more generic, and vendor independent form than your suggested approach).

So, yes, all fine indeed.

Thanks,
Robin

Originally Posted by BeBerlin

Alembic,

I, by accident, I should have come across as defensive, I apologise. I was actually trying to help here, by pointing out that while you said you wanted to fix a perceived problem of beginners, you were actually trying to solve the underlying problem of beginners not reading the information we have compiled for them (and which contains all required information in a more generic, and vendor independent form than your suggested approach).

So, yes, all fine indeed.

Thanks,
Robin

Thanks Robin, possibly I was the one getting defensive and misinterpreted your response. So I appologize in return.

I understand that the SRP site is and needs to remain vendor independent. You are correct, you can't make somebody read the FAQs. Maybe some of what I wrote as a summary of the 99% responses could help. I only suggested a starter kit to take the anxiety out of the beginners. Obviously a bad idea, or at least one that could not be executed.

There may not be a solution to getting somebody to read the Wiki's and FAQs. But I will continue to think about it.

Thanks again,
David

Maybe make the FAQ kinda like an EULA that they must read when they register and check the box that they have read it. Then you could ban them for not actually reading the terms of service if they ask those same questions

I do understand that everyone is different in how they proceed in acquiring a new hobby and that some people will just blindly ask questions because they do not care to search for them directly and that is a fact of the great masses on the internet. I see SRP as a great community and the only other forums I frequent with a mature and respectful group of people on them ( the other is an armouring site).

Originally Posted by Alembic

Thanks Robin, possibly I was the one getting defensive and misinterpreted your response. So I appologize in return.

Actually, I think you are perfectly right in having interpreted the response as defensive, and I still think that they are rather rudely dismissive. And yes, I know I'm one of the ones that supported the idea and I realize some will see me as being defensive. I cannot help those that interpret my words one way or the other. But this thread, in just a few responses, has revealed something significant about the opinions of some forum moderators about how "beginners" should go about learning from those with more experience.

Basically, this is an RTFM forum. No, it's not possible to make people read the wiki, but just because a wiki is there doesn't mean that every single last sentence in it makes sense. There are acronyms everywhere, for instance, and one has to jump over to the acronym section to figure them out. There are references in the one other thread I have posted in (and yes, I am a newbie, so flame me for that if anyone wishes) where I was getting terms like coticule and barber's hone, etc. I googled them, I looked in the wiki, and got more confused about what would be a good hone to have just around for the once-in-a-while sharpening vs. sending out. The wiki is very useful, but goes back and forth between "this might be good, but might not, and some people like it, but others find it too tough."

But what is too tough? Do I get the .5 micron diamond spray or not? The response, perhaps, is to once again go and RTFM.

I understand that the SRP site is and needs to remain vendor independent.

IMO, this doesn't hold water in this context. Vendor independent, yes. Recommendations of perhaps several models from several vendors for specific razor would be fine, I think. I go to the forum and read that about 5 different razors are good "starter" ones. But if they are all good...why did someone pick one over the other? I go read some more about each one. Read some reviews. They all indicate that...again, they are all good. So...just buy the cheapest?

I now wonder if that question - "if they are all 'good,' should I just buy the cheapest of them?" would be acceptable on the forum.

I realize that with this post I have effectively ostracized myself from this group and I will now just lurk and not ask any questions. I am sure that with enough reading I can eventually find the answers I need. I just want a closer shave. For that, I'll go RTFM.

thanks.
k.

Originally Posted by kaiyen

I now wonder if that question - "if they are all 'good,' should I just buy the cheapest of them?" would be acceptable on the forum.

thanks.
k.

I think that is the crux of the argument is that if they are all good how do you pick. Most say to pick the one that you like the best.. but if they all have black scales and shiny silver blades then what.. then I guess look at size as most recommend a 5/8 or 6/8 as a starting razor.. if they are all that as well then go with the less expensive and add that money to the additional items such as soap/strop/brush..etc.

I think the main problem is that everything in this hobby is more subjective than in most and in the majority of cases you can not just run to the local store and handle the item to see which feels better or smells to your liking.

That is probably why there are a lot of people that say look at the wiki is because it gives you a basis for that subjective decision. I have a feeling a lot of the original and older ( as in membership) members have seen so many of the similar posts if you catch them on a bad day they throw an RTFM out. Doesn't mean they are not helpful but they feel as if they have just stood there and kept talking to a 3 year old who keeps asking "Why?" for the last 30 minutes. Maybe next time they will be more graceful in their approach because they just finished shaving and are still in their meditative state but unfortunately we can't all stay in that happy place all day long.

I take all forum posts with a bucket of salt because text is emotionless and emoticons are not always the answer.

Originally Posted by Troggie

if they are all that as well then go with the less expensive and add that money to the additional items such as soap/strop/brush..etc.

all honesty, that right there is one of the most helpful single sentences I have read over the last 1.5 weeks (which doesn't sound like that long, but you all dont' know how obsessive I get :-) ). It's definitive, it gets to the point, and because I am "wise" enough to know that even your opinion is also just your opinion, I take that with a grain of salt and for the most part will stick to what you say but leave room for my own interpretation (maybe the one that is $10 more looks "prettier" and I want to indulge that part of my psyche).

It is a very subjective process, and the inability to handle these items is frustrating. I fully recognize that.

thanks.
k.

I think this SRP is great and has a large number of incredibly knowledgeable and helpful members. You all should be commended.

As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. The information is "out there" - if you Google "straight razor shaving" SRP comes up 6th on the list.

As Forest Gump said, "Stupid is as stupid does". Here's the story of THIS stupid does. I was wet shaving using a crummy $10 synthetic brush and a Gillette Fusion. My sequence of events: mission started as a search for a good badger hair brush; became enamored of a shaving set (w/ handle for the Fusion); ordered set; noticed I could get a matching SR, decided "why not" (dangerous philosophy); told vendor to add a SR & strop to the order the next day w/o knowing that I should have asked about it being "shave ready"; THEN looked at SRP and started reading WIKI; ordered another shave ready razor from Lynn.

Bottom line - there would have been no way of protecting me from myself. You guys are good, but you're not psychics. When I talked to Lynn on the phone the other day, he shared with me the easy to keep my SWMBO from being upset about all the money I've spent so far on razors & supplies. Yes, Lynn, I told her to go ahead and but that expensive Arthur Court cake stand should have seen the smile on her face

Thanks for everyone's advice so far. I know I'll be asking for more in the days to come. I'm honored to be among such a great group of guys.

Greg

Holy Crap! I would have been better off posting about religion or politics in the Conversation forum. : )

My appoligies to all of my fellow SRP members.

Originally Posted by Alembic

Holy Crap! I would have been better off posting about religion or politics in the Conversation forum. : )

My appoligies to all of my fellow SRP members.

Now you start that and I may have to take a car ride and steal your keyboard

Originally Posted by Troggie

Now you start that and I may have to take a car ride and steal your keyboard

Please do - I had no idea the can of worms