Thread: HHT

Originally Posted by ace

The reason that the "new guy" searches around for a supposedly objective sharpness test is that the shave test won't work for him because he has not yet learned how to shave. Look at the "First Shave" posts in the Beginners forum. This is not to make fun of them, but most of them have no clue whether their blade is sharp, whether their technique is off, or what the heck is going on. To tell the 'new guy" just to go shave with his razor and that that experience will tell him whether it is sharp won't work because he won't be able to learn from that experience.

That is why the HHT seems so attractive to the "new guy". He longs for a way to tell whether his blade is sharp, knows from experience that his shaves arenn't telling him whether it is or not.

The HHT may not be objective, certainly has to be customized to make any sense at all, and is probably better used during honing and stropping than at any other time. But even a flawed attempt at the HHT is better than sending someone who has yet to learn how to straight shave back to the shave den to perform a hopeless "shave test".

But why is it that someone who can't even shave yet is trying to determine if a razor is sharp? There are certainly a lot of newbies with the hubris to think they can hone their own, or that they know better than the person who honed their razor, but the reality is the HHT is not a test of sharpness.

HHT. Why is it so difficult for people to understand that the very hair used is a variable so individual and unrepeatable in any other consistent circumstance that there is never ever going to be any grounds for the test to be a reliable one?

It is useful but in no way a definitive guide. You will find what works for you in time. As all members will infer... shaving a lot (and shave testing) is best.

I wish you great shaves.

HHT is a weird test for me. Every blade that is shave ready will pass HHT with my wifes hair. Not every blade that passes the HHT is shave ready though.

Originally Posted by ace

But even a flawed attempt at the HHT is better than sending someone who has yet to learn how to straight shave back to the shave den to perform a hopeless "shave test".

I dont know about this. The flawed HHT attempts are what usually lead to these posts:

"I had a razor honed by Lynn, but it does not seem to pass the HHT very well. I have a sharpening stone from lowes that says "coarse and fine" I use on my pocket knives . After about an hour of honing getting any sharper. Is my razor just not good?"

"But why is it that someone who can't even shave yet is trying to determine if a razor is sharp? There are certainly a lot of newbies with the hubris to think they can hone their own, or that they know better than the person who honed their razor, but the reality is the HHT is not a test of sharpness."

The reason is that the new shaver doesn't know whether his blade is sharp, pure and simple. He has no way to find that out, and his shaving, as we have seen, isn't telling anything that is clearly relative to the edge he is using.

There is no question whether the HHT is a measure of sharpness. Anything that causes a hair to be cut in half is a measure of sharpness. It may not be objective or certain, but it is a measure.

While we're harping on objectivity here, when did the shave test become objective? Not only do you have differing beards, differing preparation, techniques, edges and all of that, but you have different standards as well, BBS, DFS. CCS, and more. So I get the best shave of my life. How objective is that and what does it mean about the edge objectively?

Come to think of it, I never really considered any other measure of a straight razor being "shave ready" except for shaving my beard. I just took SRD or any other online vendor's word from whom I purchased a razor that the razor was shave ready.

Of course, later on I have removed hair from my lower arm to test if the razor was sharp. They usually do. But the hair which comprises my beard feels and probably is coarser than the hair on my arm.

In my opinion the HHT is not gonna do a new straight shaver any good.
It will only leave them questioning yet another factor: the hair on which they perform that test.

That said, the shave test is not of the biggest value either. It will not tell a new shaver that the razor is sharp enough.
(but of course, it will eventually give knowledge and experience)

I have made posts on here questioning a perfectly honed edge myself.
Of course, it was my prep and technique that needed honing.

Learning this takes time. The sooner that is accepted, the better the unexperienced will fare.

Having the razor professionally honed, and committing to that edge with patience and a lot of practice will be the way to learn this.
And once one has done that, the whole HHT becomes a sidetrack.

IMHO that is
YMMV and all that of course

Gentlemen:

The HHT test for an inexperienced shaver is about as reliable as an e-mail from Dubai asking for your bank account number to deposit a $7 million inheritance.

If you buy a shave-ready razor from a reliable vendor, assume that in all likelihood it is sharp. Shave with it. If you feel the razor is not shaving properly, rather than chasing the HHT, consider your skill level and perhaps your preparation as the culprits and try to improve upon them by studying more and asking questions.

Regards,

Obie

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Don't take this wrong Mike but that logic is *Silly* as you put it

Take two hairs from two people, at just my house, One hair "mine" will pop an HHT at 1k set bevel...
The other hair "the wife's" will not pop an HHT unless the edge is absolutely perfect shave ready stropped...

Only somebody who had slept through middle school science classes would, while searching for a repeatable (by the individual beginner in question) objective test decide to use a hair from a different person for each iteration.

Let me explain with another analogy. *Zero to sixty times and MPG performance don't indicate how well a car drives, either. *But if a person suspects his new car's engine was incorrectly tuned by the factory, listening to an old pro assert it doesn't matter as long as the car drives well isn't usually going to be well-received. *

Originally Posted by MikeMN

Only somebody who had slept through middle school science classes would, while searching for a repeatable (by the individual beginner in question) objective test decide to use a hair from a different person for each iteration.

Let me explain with another analogy. *Zero to sixty times and MPG performance don't indicate how well a car drives, either. *But if a person suspects his new car's engine was incorrectly tuned by the factory, listening to an old pro assert it doesn't matter as long as the car drives well isn't usually going to be well-received. *

So the new driver should go buy a set of tools and try to rebuild the engine when he has never turned a wrench or driven before?