Thread: HHT

Originally Posted by BKratchmer

But why is it that someone who can't even shave yet is trying to determine if a razor is sharp? There are certainly a lot of newbies with the hubris to think they can hone their own, or that they know better than the person who honed their razor, but the reality is the HHT is not a test of sharpness.

But if one uses the same soaked hair on two side by side razors, both supposedly honed by a hone master, the person conducting the HHT can objectively demonstrate differences in sharpness.

Why the fear and trepidition among the experienced t such a tool to the beginner?

Some of you experienced guys, esteemed and venerated fountains of wisdom that you are (and this reputation is well deserved), are like my wife. My wife is an outstanding cook. But she doesn't use measuring cups when she cooks. She thinks the use of calibrated teaspoons and measuring cups is a silly movement to turn a high art into a something that resembles a chemistry experiment that a no talent automaton can execute. But, then again, my wife wouldn't make a good home economics teacher. She laughs and ridicules others who use measuring crutches when they cook.

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

So the new driver should go buy a set of tools and try to rebuild the engine when he has never turned a wrench or driven before?

No, but he might want to attempt to objectively measure his actual MPG before going back to the car dealer to complain.

Originally Posted by MikeMN

But if one uses the same soaked hair on two side by side razors, both supposedly honed by a hone master, the person conducting the HHT can objectively demonstrate differences in sharpness.

Why the fear and trepidition among the experienced t such a tool to the beginner?

Some of you experienced guys, esteemed and venerated fountains of wisdom that you are (and this reputation is well deserved), are like my wife. My wife is an outstanding cook. But she doesn't use measuring cups when she cooks. She thinks the use of calibrated teaspoons and measuring cups is a silly movement to turn a high art into a something that resembles a chemistry experiment that a no talent automaton can execute. But, then again, my wife wouldn't make a good home economics teacher. She laughs and ridicules others who use measuring crutches when they cook.

Enough Dude!!!

Originally Posted by MikeMN

Only somebody who had slept through middle school science classes would, while searching for a repeatable (by the individual beginner in question) objective test decide to use a hair from a different person for each iteration.

Let me explain with another analogy. *Zero to sixty times and MPG performance don't indicate how well a car drives, either. *But if a person suspects his new car's engine was incorrectly tuned by the factory, listening to an old pro assert it doesn't matter as long as the car drives well isn't usually going to be well-received. *

Mike, read your first post, the very first one.. then read my statement about "thinking" a bit...

If you need me to explain that all to you step by step, I will take the time, but honestly I think you can figure out the flaws yourself... I have no problem walking somebody through all the ins and out of the HHT but it has been done numerous times on SRP...


Now on a Moderator note, you are being rather rude, the very first responses to Stephen was laced with it, the the Middle School line would have drawn a ban if you had made it to any other person on the forum, other than me... Temper your responses in the future and drop the facetious tone, it doesn't always read well in your posts...
Yes that is a real warning...

I now have 4 razors. Two were hone by the same master, and from these, one of these was used and stropped; the other not. The other two have only the factory edge.

With a single piece of soaked hair, I am able to see, side by side, that:

1. The razor that was never used is sharper than the one that was used.
2. The two factory edge razors are very dull in comparison.

No surprise to an experienced straight razor shaver, I'm sure, but many of those same experienced straight razor shavers seem to have a lot of trouble seeing the value to a beginner of being able to non destructively and more objectively evaluate the sharpness of a razor.

You all have to admit that a HHT test is better for the health of a razor than another option a beginner might naively attempt: cutting paper.

Originally Posted by Lynn

Enough Dude!!!

Wow, thanks Lynn, I'll remember that.

Originally Posted by MikeMN

I now have 4 razors. Two were hone by the same master, and from these, one of these was used and stropped; the other not. The other two have only the factory edge.

With a single piece of soaked hair, I am able to see, side by side, that:

1. The razor that was never used is sharper than the one that was used.
2. The two factory edge razors are very dull in comparison.

No surprise to an experienced straight razor shaver, I'm sure, but many of those same experienced straight razor shavers seem to have a lot of trouble seeing the value to a beginner of being able to non destructively and more objectively evaluate the sharpness of a razor.

You all have to admit that a HHT test is better for the health of a razor than another option a beginner might naively attempt: cutting paper.

How many new shavers have more than one razor to compare too? I can make a razor pass HHT easily off my DMT.

Unless someone sells clean and sterilized hairs from their head with detailed written instructions on how they should pass I do not see how it is valuable for a new shaver.

Even then it changes based on which end of the hair you hold, the length of the "hanging" part of the hair, if the razor was previously oiled,how well you stropped, humidity and probably other factors I am missing.

agreed the shave test is the tru test, if you have a thick hair that will pop at 1k then that will make a nub think that he razor is ready when it is not. or vice versa. the best test i do is to take and roll up my jeans and see if i can completly bald a strip of leg with a single pass, if i need to do more than that to smooth it out than its time to go to the barber hone and a touchup. this just works for me im not saying its set in stone. i just dont have enough facial hair to know if its still sharp enough.

One issue with new shavers is that many of them are looking for reasons why they aren't getting a good shave. If someone lacks the experience to gauge a razors sharpness by using it (not a criticism...we've all been there) then relying on a test with as many variables as the HHT can just serve to add more confusion to the process.

We can use me as an example. For whatever the reason, and it doesn't matter what the reason is, I have never done well with the HHT. It just doesn't work well for me. None the less, most of my razors are fully shave ready. If I were to get a poor result from one of my razors, and I relied on the HHT, I would conclude that the razor was dull, which is not the case. I would be off trying to solve a non existent problem instead of figuring out what is really going wrong. For this reason I believe that the HHT, in the hands of a Beginner, causes more problems than it solves.

IMO, for a new guy the best criteria for sharpness is "do I know that this blade was honed by someone who can reliably produce a shave ready result?".

Originally Posted by MikeMN

Why the fear and trepidition among the experienced t such a tool to the beginner?

People new to shaving with straight razors read about the HHT and assume that if they cannot pass that "test" their razor is not up to snuff. The HHT is basically an advanced test used following honing and stropping. As others have noted, it is such a variable test, depending on the individual's hair, the razor, and the skill level, that it is just not viable for everyone. IME, and that of others, a razor that passes won't necessarily shave well, while a razor that doesn't pass may shave very well.

So it is not a matter of "fear and trepidation" on the part of more experienced members that brings up posts critical of the HHT. Rather it is the recognition, through that experience, that the test is misleading to the inexperienced, and they should be aware of that before they become impressed with a razor that passes or despondent over one that does not. That is all there is to it really, IMHO.