Thread: Discouraged

See my signature for a graphic of the HHT. The razor is held motionless, only the hair is moved. The hair is held with the root end out and with the curve pointing down. Thats how I do it.

This thread is being handled very well!

Originally Posted by randydance062449

See my signature for a graphic of the HHT. The razor is held motionless, only the hair is moved. The hair is held with the root end out and with the curve pointing down. Thats how I do it.

This thread is being handled very well!

Yep. AF gives outstanding instructions.

Originally Posted by mparker762

I found a place on my arms where the hair is just right for testing. That was one of the big advances in my honing, I got a razor from Chandler and ran it around my arms looking for stuff his would pop and mine wouldn't. then I worked on my honing till mine could do it too -- been smooth shaving since then :-)

And that's pretty much how I did it, too. I got a couple from Lynn, then worked to match it. Having shave ready to start with is the single best thing I've found to shorten the learning curve.

And the shaving test is still the best and most indicative of the bunch.........hahahahahaha



Lynn

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Your doing great .... see this stuff is easy. Ok, for the next spot we'll call this a partially successful HHT. You should take the time to wet your thumb again for about 20 seconds and move your thumbpad across the edge so you can feel what the partially successful HHT does.

Now its time to play a little. Your objective is to catch absolutely all of the hair on your arm, and then to move to the razor "confidently" catching all the hair on your arm, or lets say "with authority". You'll feel the difference.

Start by just using the 8K and use very, very light, slow strokes. I strongly recommend the x pattern for this section. Go slow. Apply water to the 8K (you can just splash it on). Use only the weight of the blade. Hold it by the shank on the sides and don't push down. Hold the shank exactly at the balance point that ensures the weight of the razor falls into the hone.

Do 5 x 8k, 5 x 8k, 5 x 8k and test as you go. Keep doing that in groups of 3. If you feel the need you can use 1 x 4K after each 3 sets of 8K x 5 passes. Then repost until you get confident hair popping on all the arm hair. Just for clarity, thats 1 x 4k for every 15 strokes on 8K. I'd prefer you use the 4K very sparingly (i.e. only when needed).

This part requires absolute discipline . . . this is the part that starts to separate the men from the boys. Go slow, keep the razor flat and watch it close to make sure it doesn't lift off the hone. For this part think about how light a touch it would take to create a razors edge. A small flaw here and we go back several steps. In other words, its a little tough here, go slow.

If you get confident hair popping . . . put away the 4K and repost. We're just getting started.

OK, Here's where I am.
First wet my thumb to feel what partial HHT feels like. It feels like the razor is catching, tugging, grabbing the individual space between the finger prints.

Next I did a few 1x4k/5x8k/5x8/5x8k laps. After about 3 rounds I dropped the 4k out of the loop. I tested after each run of 15x8K. I got good hair cutting. I kept going with 15x8K for a couple more laps. Then I thought "maybe I'm overhoning". So I did 1x4K/5x8k/5x8K/5x8K and did my last test and stopped.

The Wagner cuts (right now) better than the Granite. It is a heavier razor, I don't know if that has anything to do with anything. It seemed like the Wagner could cut hairs when hovering higher of the arm than the Granite. At this point I'm not sure how easily they should be mowing down my arm hairs. There was still some tugging, but not as much as I've been accustomed to. For giggles I took some of the cut forearm hairs and tried to cut them across a razor on it's spine. I got one or two to cut, but only with slicing along the edge.

So that's where I currently am right now. Two razors popping hairs well. One better than the other.

Oh yeah. Two quesitons;
1. Why X pattern, if I have stones wide enough to hold the whole blade? I did it for the honing, but I'm wondering is heel leading would work also.
2. How wet to keep the stones? I noticed that when I first wet the stone the razor almost hydroplanes on the stone. As the surface water reduces there seems to be more suction. Which is better for sharpening? Lots of water or not so much?

I'm ready for more.
Thanks much.

Less water (within reason) = faster cutting. More water is better for fine finishing work. I'll go with Lynn on the ultimate test as I found the HHT to be a fairly inconsistent indicator of shave readiness. Try shaving with the better cutter and see how it goes. In any case I'll be coming over with the chromium oxide, which should arrive this week.

Sounds like you've been having some fun over there . . .

So, let us know how a shave test goes with the better cutter.

Sounds like you've done up both razors well. Take the lesser cutter and try a few more 8k passes with a light touch.

But first, its lapping time again. Yup, you've already dished it into a little concave puddle. Apply pencil marks and the lap a little. 8K only and lightly.

Three words: patience, practice, and light strokes. OK, thats four words. The idea at this point may be to just keep at it, but . . .

Also, you can draw a line along on the 8K with pencil and use only 2/3 of the stone. Then heat the blade up in hot water (like you'd shave in) and use an x pattern in a more vertical stroke. So your pulling the blade as much downward as you are across. That way the edge is less likely to crumble on you because your honing into itself more. Which should answer one of your other questions if you think about it for a while. Your honing the edge supported by the spine and the blade body (this might be hard to visualize, just yet). Think of the fragile edge using the sections of the edge next to it to support it as you hone. So, we are cutting now but in a more shearing action.

While were at it, since you hold the razor by the shank you have no choice, simply based on physics, to use more pressure on the lower end of the razor. The x pattern compensates for the greater honing action from your touching the shank by honing the tip more during the stroke. Ofcourse, if every stroke were perfect you could hone down the stone, but if every stroke were perfect . . . well as they say, you wouldn't be in this mess....sorry j/k. But the physics behind why a x stroke is so critical at this stage are pretty complex to understand, and may not help much.

Also, test both razors now after stropping. Again, check the edge with the thumbprint and see if you can feel the difference between the edges you say cut differently on your arm hair. Pretty soon, you'll know more about honing then I do...

Finally, if after say 15 more strokes on 8K the lesser cutter doesn't respond, try one pass on 4K and work your way back to where you are now. It must be a very light pass and keep the razor flat.

Post again and keep having fun!

One reason why many of us use X-patterns instead of going straight across with the heel leading is that it's hard to tell if the edge is 100 percent straight.

If it has a slight curve, or smile, and you push it straight across, you'll get good contact on part of the edge and none at all on others. (There is a rocking motion you can use to compensate for this, but it's beyond my skills at this point.)

With the X-pattern, as you move the blade off the stone, each part makes contact at some point.

Some guys do hone with a straight-across motion, often using both hands. I just find the X-pattern easier to get for a relatively new honer.

Josh

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Sounds like you've been having some fun over there . . .

So, let us know how a shave test goes with the better cutter.

Sounds like you've done up both razors well. Take the lesser cutter and try a few more 8k passes with a light touch.

But first, its lapping time again. Yup, you've already dished it into a little concave puddle. Apply pencil marks and the lap a little. 8K only and lightly.

Three words: patience, practice, and light strokes. OK, thats four words. The idea at this point may be to just keep at it, but . . .

Also, you can draw a line along on the 8K with pencil and use only 2/3 of the stone. Then heat the blade up in hot water (like you'd shave in) and use an x pattern in a more vertical stroke. So your pulling the blade as much downward as you are across. That way the edge is less likely to crumble on you because your honing into itself more. Which should answer one of your other questions if you think about it for a while. Your honing the edge supported by the spine and the blade body (this might be hard to visualize, just yet). Think of the fragile edge using the sections of the edge next to it to support it as you hone. So, we are cutting now but in a more shearing action.

While were at it, since you hold the razor by the shank you have no choice, simply based on physics, to use more pressure on the lower end of the razor. The x pattern compensates for the greater honing action from your touching the shank by honing the tip more during the stroke. Ofcourse, if every stroke were perfect you could hone down the stone, but if every stroke were perfect . . . well as they say, you wouldn't be in this mess....sorry j/k. But the physics behind why a x stroke is so critical at this stage are pretty complex to understand, and may not help much.

Also, test both razors now after stropping. Again, check the edge with the thumbprint and see if you can feel the difference between the edges you say cut differently on your arm hair. Pretty soon, you'll know more about honing then I do...

Finally, if after say 15 more strokes on 8K the lesser cutter doesn't respond, try one pass on 4K and work your way back to where you are now. It must be a very light pass and keep the razor flat.

Post again and keep having fun!

No matter how many times I read this I'm still confused. I'm lost on the pencil and 2/3rds and vertical stroke... etc. Is it possible we hone in different directions. I'm honing up/down, with the stone length facing away from me, as opposed to side ways. I hone away/toward, not left/right.

At this point I'm not going to do anything other then run the lesser of the two razors on the 8k. I don't want to make a mistake and take a step back.

Can you please re-explain the instructions?
Thanks and sorry.

Yea, no problem. First, we may not even need that step. Did you try a test shave? Whats the status with that?

Second, yes. Turn the stone sideways. Now looking at the stone it should be what, about 8 inches long right? Now "remove" the last 3 inches from the surface visually with your mind. Hone on the right half only (or left if your left handed). Use a vertical stroke, shorter than before. Make it so your stroke is more vertical than before. The razor is pulled down and sideways so the tip starts in the corner and moves off the stone at the bottom before you get to the end. Its an x pattern using less of the sideways part of the stone. All it is is an X pattern (with much less sideways motion). You don't have to go off the stone, you can stop when the blade is half way off.

For this part, you must; go slow, make sure you don't drop the razor onto the hone as you turn it over its spine, and try to feel suction on the hone. Pulling the razor off the stone without it lifting is a big challenge, which requires you to really slow down.

Good news is you only need to do 5 strokes like that, and only with the duller razor.

Test shave with the other.

Here is another option you might prefer. Run the razor straight down the hone. With the scales slightly closed from straight up and down (so the razor edge falls into the stone) and use one pass on 8K with slight pressure. Run it all the way down, again with slight pressure (about twice the wieght of the blade). Then do 5 very, very light strokes again. Then test on your arm hair or test shave. Strop first ofcourse. Do this on the duller blade. Again, the razor and scales normally make a straight line when people hone, your going to close the razor slightly in each direction to the the razor edge to fall harder into the stone. Try it with the razor not moving on the stone and you'll find that moving the position of the scales changes the balance of the blade slightly.

One important idea with these strokes is to roll your pinky under the scales to hold the scales up so the razor can't lift off the hone. Your wrist should not move. Manipulate the blade with your fingers and hold the razor by the shank. Don't apply pressure downward unless indicated.

Test shave both razors. Use a light touch on the strop and failing that add a dab of pressure stropping on the razor you think is the duller of the two. Just a dab, then use a light touch again. Strop each about 20 times on leather.

Tell us how the shave went.

Oh, and sorry about being confusing.