Thread: Discouraged

Dave,

If you're still confused, try this: Alan is suggesting that you do shorter strokes on the Norton to finish off the razor.

I find that it's easier to keep pressure light and even if you shorten the stroke. So instead of doing a long, 8-inch X-stroke that gradually draws the razor's heel off the edge of the stone, you do a 5-inch stroke.

To do that, you have to draw the razor across the hone at a sharper angle. When it reaches the pencil mark Alan mentioned, just the tip of the razor should be on the stone.

You're just shortening your X-strokes to gain control. Shorter strokes also mean the razor's not on the hone as long, so the likelihood of doing too much honing at once is lessened.

Let us know if you're still confused.

Josh

Alright, here we go.

After re-reading the last post I sort of figured out what you were trying to describe Alan. Shorter x pattern which draws the razor more aggressively across the stone.

So I did that with both razors. I managed to get the lesser sharp razor more sharp, and the sharper one even more sharp. I'm out of arm hairs now.

I was all stoked for my morning shave. I stropped up and used the Wagner for two passes and the Granite for the 3rd. I basically just wanted to use both razors. Feeling my face now (3 hours after shaving) and it's very smooth. But there is a hint of irritation. On the neck under the chin. The cutting seemed cleaner than I've had before, but there still seems to be some tugging. Towards the end I tried something. I layed the razor flat on my skin, rather than with the spine off the neck (30 degrees-ish). It seemed like the razor cut clean after that. Mind you it was near the end and there may not have been much left to get.

I should point out that right now I'm a two hand honer. I find that I feel more confident. But I haven't tried your latest honing suggestions. I also read another thread where Josh was coached through some similar honing issues. I was very excited to read of his success. I feel that I'm getting closer, but I know the blade can be sharper and give me a smoother shave.

So at this point is it simply "keep at it"? Or is there more specific things to work on?

I feel like I've turned a corner.

I haven't been reading this whole thread, so I don't know if what I'm about to say has already been said, but here goes nothin'.

I think the two handed honing is a mistake. You really want to ctreate a situation where both sides of the blade have the chance to experience equal conditions across the hone. I'm uncertain that switching hands will help this.

Something which brings the edge into the happy place for me is applying a little pressure at the beginning of the pyramid and easing off to weight of the blade alone for the end. I also use a little less pressure on the 8k side than the 4k. As I advance through the pyramid I use the Thumb (pad) test regularly to get a sense of how the edge is progressing. I'm looking for that gentle tickling sensation without getting too 'bitey' unti8l the very end. As I'm rounding the end of the pyramid I ue the HHT very regularly. If it's not quite responding at th e end I'll do ONE more lap up and back on the 8k and HHT again, and repeat to see if it getts better. Too much of this will quickly oerhone the edge and I'll have to step back to the 4k.

Hope that helps.

X

Originally Posted by xman

I think the two handed honing is a mistake. You really want to ctreate a situation where both sides of the blade have the chance to experience equal conditions across the hone. I'm uncertain that switching hands will help this.

Just to clarify, when I say two hand honing I mean two hands on the blade, right thumb and index on the tang to drive, left thumb and index to stabalize and help guide.

All this info is great. Thanks

I only do 2-handed when establishing the inital bevel with one exception.. That little frameback I got from Ivo was a bit difficult to handle, very easy to roll the edge, so I went 2 handed but very gently on it.

Originally Posted by mindspin

Just to clarify, when I say two hand honing I mean two hands on the blade, right thumb and index on the tang to drive, left thumb and index to stabalize and help guide.

Ah, well that might not be as bad, but I'd still shoot for one handed if I were you.

Also be careful where you place your finger and thumb on the grip. If you make sure you thumb is on the edge side of the shank on the over side and fingers contact the spine side of the underside and you'll be giving the blade the same torque to the hone in both directions. It's a very slightly different grip each way.

X

Dave,

Yeah, I was pretty excited to finally "get it," since I've been at this for a while. I'd been trying to do pyramids with light pressure, but Alan's method works better for me.

He gets the blade sharp on the 4K, then uses only the 8K to smooth the bevel. I think what helped me make the breakthrough was getting the razor HHT sharp on the 4K, which I didn't realize was possible. Then doing 25 strokes with pressure on the 8K smooths things out really nice. (But actually the razor will probably fail the HHT test at this point.) Then five no-pressure strokes on the 8K and you're there.

I was finding that two or three light strokes on the 8K were taking me from sharp to overhoned. It was a real pain.

It's pretty amazing how few strokes you really need once you get the hang of it.

Good luck,
Josh

Ohhhh I lost a big reply . . . I hate when that happens. Ok, it could be your technique. That could be a culprit but lets take each razor in different directions. Lets take the "dull" razor and back hone on 8K two passes, then one pass on 4K, then use some 8k strokes. 10 x 8k with a touch of pressure and then 5 x 8k with ultra light touch and test shave. If you've overhoned its my fault, I didn't realize you were honing with two hands. Tell me how that one shaves now.

Second with the other razor, lets assume its just not sharp enough. Add 6 x 4K passes with light pressure, then start again with 8k passes. Test after every 5 8K passes after that.

Now is a good time to run out and get a microscope at Radioshack for $10 and actually be able to see whether its overhoned or not.

This may be as close as I can get you if your using two hands and using straight strokes down the hone. As much as these posts probably sound like the "secret" is in the number of strokes you are using, most of it is actually in you just making good strokes down the hone and being patient with the effect of a very high grit hone.

Let us know which razor shaves better after this . . .

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Ohhhh I lost a big reply . . . I hate when that happens. Ok, it could be your technique. That could be a culprit but lets take each razor in different directions. Lets take the "dull" razor and back hone on 8K two passes, then one pass on 4K, then use some 8k strokes. 10 x 8k with a touch of pressure and then 5 x 8k with ultra light touch and test shave. If you've overhoned its my fault, I didn't realize you were honing with two hands. Tell me how that one shaves now.

Second with the other razor, lets assume its just not sharp enough. Add 6 x 4K passes with light pressure, then start again with 8k passes. Test after every 5 8K passes after that.

Now is a good time to run out and get a microscope at Radioshack for $10 and actually be able to see whether its overhoned or not.

This may be as close as I can get you if your using two hands and using straight strokes down the hone. As much as these posts probably sound like the "secret" is in the number of strokes you are using, most of it is actually in you just making good strokes down the hone and being patient with the effect of a very high grit hone.

Let us know which razor shaves better after this . . .

I actually have modified my stroke to an x pattern in the last couple days. I just always thought it was a way to get a thinner stone to contact all the blade. I now realize there are other reasons. As for two handed... it's only because I'm new to honing that I feel more comfortable with two hands keeping the blade flat. It would appear THAT is an area I need to work on.

I have to say it is truly sad that our Dad's didn't pass (or likely weren't instructed either) down the knowledge of how to shave properly. I've passed on some info to a younger friend of mine based on what I've learned - mostly from this site. He doesn't want to go the straight route, but is bothered by sensitivity problems. I told him that if he at least preps properly, and drops the canned gilette shaving cream, that will help quite a bit.

I have to applaud the helpfullness of all the members here (and still being a relative newbie I still get a lot out of reading posts here) and reintroducing the "art" of shaving. I haven't had razor burn now in so long, that I almost forget what it feels like. It used to be a daily occurance for me.

BTW, my wife ordered a comb for my son from Classicshaving the other day and it arrived with a DVD that Lynn put together on shaving, sharpening, etc. Fantastic. The video on there is even better than the one he has(had?) posted here. I'm not sure what you have to do specifically to get a hold of it, but do so if you can. He helped correct a couple of technique issues I had been struggling with, and my last several shaves have been phenomenal and very consistent.