Thread: How fast can you kill an edge?

Originally Posted by gssixgun

A question of how often vs the grit.. not just how often, welcome back in

The comfort level which you stop at is not a factor, I realize that you are trying to inject it into this, but that is not part of the discussion above

Read post 24 once again with just the quotes

Triple darn, did it again, ok you win :-). But now I can see the logic a bit, take an axe sharpen the bejesus out of it and the edge will be more likely to break.

For some perspective we should probably get some idea of how many razors have been honed by the various parties involved.
I will start - 2 touch ups, not convinced of quality. Os I will be posting the razor tomorrow.

Uh, I got a decent shave this morning on that edge, just a quick 2-pass since I was running late (bad case of the Mondays)....if anyone cares....

Originally Posted by griff199

Uh, I got a decent shave this morning on that edge, just a quick 2-pass since I was running late (bad case of the Mondays)....if anyone cares....

Of course we care, well I do anyway and I am sure most of the other guys will too. You created some interesting debate, though I don't think you answered my question on stropping. Am glad it is hopefully now under control for you.
Were we any help?:-)

I believe everyone of us has his own standards of honing and a personal idea about sharpness of a razor, all to be compared with one's own whiskers and shaving technique. Not to mention stropping.
Having said this, an edge honed with, say, a 3k will be coarser than a 12k, the latter also giving a thinner edge, therefore, more delicate and fragile, something which can also be easily seen through a microscope. The two blades will of course give different sensations on the skin, also this being a matter of personal judgment.
Everyone here knows a whisker is as hard as a copper wire to cut, offering a quite strong resistance to the razor's edge, which unavoidably will start to get blunt because of the "mechanical" action. The more delicate the edge, the quicker it will get blunt. Of course, the quality and type of steel play a fundamental role in this.
Now, I understand I may not be that good in honing, but in my own experience/beard/shaving/stropping, the very same razor honed with the Chinese "so called 12k" needs to be refreshed in chromium oxide more often than when I use a Naniwa 8k without finishing it on a 12k. Like I said, I understand I may not be that good in honing/stropping and all the rest, but this is what I can tell according to my own experience.
Having said this, this discussion is very interesting!

I was just joking around, yes, I strop it daily. My routine was 5 laps cotton and 10 laps leather: that is post-shave to ensure the edge is dry; 20 laps cotton 50 laps leather pre shave.

Now I've recently modified that to only leather and increased the counts to 20ish post and 70ish pre. Reason for deleting the cotton fabric (SRD premium fabric) is that after applying Crox to one side, I discovered the other side has a flaw in the fabric, like a knot in the weave. It's close to center north/south so avoiding it is difficult, I'm only left with a few inches stroke on either side of it.

I also recently bought another strop, a Harold 181Ri, just to try something different. I was using 3" red latigo on my SRD but really tore it up in my early days.

Originally Posted by griff199

I was just joking around, yes, I strop it daily. My routine was 5 laps cotton and 10 laps leather: that is post-shave to ensure the edge is dry; 20 laps cotton 50 laps leatherpre shave.

Now I recently modified to only leather and increased the counts to 20ish post and 70Ish pre. Reason for deleting the fabric (SRD premic) is that after applying Crox to one side, I discovered the other side has a flaw in the fabric, like a knot in the weave. It's close to center north/south so avoiding it is difficult, I'm only left with a few inches stroke on either side of it.

I also recently bought another strop, a Harold 181Ri, just to try something different. I was using 3" red latigo on my SRD but really tore it up in my early days.

there are a few threads about ad hoc strops, jonnywimm uses an old canvas radio strap, i have used a herringbone cotton bag strap, and a cotton webbing strap from a charity shop, have a look around and see what you can find, jonnys strop was free and mine was $1 though i also only use leather sometimes. I am only about four weeks in though.

Hey mate ,

I found my stropping was killing the edge when I first started. Once I got that figured out , I really watched how others stropped and slowed down my technique ...took time but it worked.

Cheers,

Scott

Originally Posted by griff199

I mean unintentionally.
little background, I received my Dovo BQ 6/8 shave ready around Xmas time. I shaved non-exclusively with it getting marginally good shaves, with some irritation in the tricky spots. Shaving became increasingly difficult and I bought a Norton 4/8.

My first go at honing was terrible, I realized immediately when I tried to shave with it, so I bailed and reached for the DE. a couple more tries at it and I was back in business, the razor seemed to me to be shaving well again, and I started exclusively using the straight. About 3-4 weeks later it was unbearable again. Back to the hone. Felt a bit rough so I did 7 laps on Crox. Better but still not there, so I went for 10 more laps on the Crox. Bingo! Shaved great, maybe best shaves to date....

...but here's the problem, that was only 10 days ago and this morning it was catching like crazy. So am I killing the edge quickly or can some kind of newb honing mistake cause this? (Sorry for the long story)

Originally Posted by bill3152

Anybody do a study of this then? The only thing I can say is ive finished blades on .3 micron lapping film and the edge didnt last more than 3 shaves. .3 film on granite surface plate. 1 micron film lasted for weeks on the same blade. Sheffield steel. I got 5 shaves off .3 film on a modern TI.

Originally Posted by razorguy

Now, I understand I may not be that good in honing, but in my own experience/beard/shaving/stropping, the very same razor honed with the Chinese "so called 12k" needs to be refreshed in chromium oxide more often than when I use a Naniwa 8k without finishing it on a 12k. Like I said, I understand I may not be that good in honing/stropping and all the rest, but this is what I can tell according to my own experience.

Gentlemen, when you make broad sweeping statements, like you both did in this thread expect them to be challenged...

You have done no experimentation to back up your hypothesis not even a simple test of a Naniwa 8k SS vs a Naniwa 12k SS which would probably be the easiest to back up your statements... Let alone tests using say a Norton 8k vs Many other finishers.. or perhaps another easy one of the Shapton 8k vs a 16k and/or 30k finish...

Bill you are showing a comparison of lapping films (Not Hones) in the 16k vs 50k "range"
RG you are comparing a Naniwa 8k SS to a stone that is known to be called a PHIG "Peoples Hone of INDETERMINATE Grit", plus many of them are known to be actually detrimental to the edge rather than complimentary...
You both also introduced Pastes into the equation which negates all your findings either way


It really isn't that hard to prove a hypothesis, there are tons of guys on here that love to try this stuff and join right in on experiments, and even if you can't get others to join in at least do your own experimentation before making unfounded statements..

Originally Posted by gssixgun

It really isn't that hard to prove a hypothesis, there are tons of guys on here that love to try this stuff and join right in on experiments, and even if you can't get others to join in at least do your own experimentation before making unfounded statements..

What I said is in fact based on my experience and experimentation, not just something I said for the fun of it. I am not used to write/say things I did not try myself. I am not of course doubting your experience - which I believe to be very reputable and indisputable, also based on daily practice - but this is what I can tell according to my experience and according to observation through a microscope. I do agree on what you say about experimenting with other stones in order to see what happens, however my set of stones, I guess, is enough to prove something.
Both bill3152 and I are stating facts based on our experience and what we saw by a "rude" observation of facts. I agree with you about the Chinese stone and in fact I put the "12k grit" in double quotes as everyone knows all natural stones are of indeterminate grit. Despite of this, it seems to me the Chinese stone is a good finisher but you may have a different opinion about that and I believe yours is certainly more reliable than mine (no, no pun intended here: I do believe you are very competent in this matter) and if you are going to tell me the Chinese stone is not that good, I will certainly believe that.

With my very best and respectful regards.

Nothing definitive but I've seen this all before under the loupe.

2k edge not stropped. Followed by same edge after 10 strokes into an old badger brush 3/4 way down the brush so quite stiff hair. Chunk of steel lost near the tip surrounded by 3 sizeable deformed areas (shiny bits)