Thread: Chinese Badger knots and sweatshops

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I haven't researched it at all, but Simpson calls them "Manchurian" because that is where they are harvested AFAIK. I've heard that most knots come from China, or the Far East.

What I find interesting is the big outfits like Simpson, Plisson, Rooney &c get superior knots. The golden nib, or whoever just do not hold a candle to them. They cannot compare ..... IME.

As far as labor conditions ......... as of 2008 ;

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/05/bu...pagewanted=all

This article is a reasonable example about how complicated the problem can be. I am not saying that abuses don't happen but it is not always the big American business that is at fault. Some of the things cited are common but with further investigation you find things like:
The health benefits that employees were shorted - The health and what we would call social security system in China is province based. The migrant worker has pay deducted (like we do for social security) and it goes into a fund for that province. They are migrant workers and when they return to their home province they give up what they paid into the system. Many employees ask the factory to pay them that amount instead of deducting it.

Underage employees. Occasionally you might find someone really young and usually they are using a borrowed id card to get the job. More often than not you find people "underage" because of how you do math. In China it is calculated by year only. So if you are born on Dec 31, on Jan 1 you are though of as 1 year old. Legal age to work is 16. If you do math by day, month, year you often find people 15 years old and 6 months. Underage by our standards but legal by year only.
Here is the duality of the argument. I had an associate who worked for another company who found an underage person working the line in a factory. She was promptly let go by the factory. By the end of the week this associate saw the same girl working the corner by the hotel. She was the main wage earner for her family and they needed to eat. She was not allowed back at the factory so resorted to her only other option. That is what is known as unintended consequences.

The burnt hands or broken fingers. I hope the factory is providing personal protective equipment. If not, they are wrong. I would go into a factory where they cut fabric. Employees were given a metal mesh glove to protect their hands from the cutting blades. Every time when I would walk in and they saw me they reached under the table and put the glove on. When I left, they took it back off. Was easier to work without it on but was very dangerous.

The students working in the summer. There is a government sponsored program where students "learn a skill" over the summer. It is supposed to be like an internship kind of thing. I do not necessarily agree with this practice especially when they just end up working on the line like everyone else but the factory has a waiver for age when using the program.

The biggest issue is that the factories are 51% owned by the government and the government is the bank that funds the factory. So if the government is 51% and allows the factory to break their own laws, how will the American customer change anything?

Needless to say, I am glad that I don't have to do this anymore. Often there is no good answer to the issues.

Every issue has a good answer it's just that folks don't want to hear it for a variety of reasons.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Just be thankful no one decided that White Rhino whiskers make the best brushes.

If white rhinos were raised for profit there would be more of them, treated better, fed and housed better than what the wild nature affords.

Originally Posted by Longhaultanker

If white rhinos were raised for profit there would be more of them, treated better, fed and housed better than what the wild nature affords.

Isn't that what we do with cattle?

The post on migrant workers struck a chord with me - Dubai has an indigenous population of about 400k but a regular population of about 1.3million - the vast majority of the guest workers are from the Indian sub-continent working in construction and general labouring roles. They too are housed in compounds with their own shops because they could not possibly afford normal prices for accommodation and other necessities. Nonetheless, they take the work because it pays incomparably better than they could expect at home.

By the way, when the temperature starts creeping up there, the whole peninsula could be classed as a sweatshop.

Originally Posted by UKRob

The post on migrant workers struck a chord with me - Dubai has an indigenous population of about 400k but a regular population of about 1.3million - the vast majority of the guest workers are from the Indian sub-continent working in construction and general labouring roles. They too are housed in compounds with their own shops because they could not possibly afford normal prices for accommodation and other necessities. Nonetheless, they take the work because it pays incomparably better than they could expect at home.

By the way, when the temperature starts creeping up there, the whole peninsula could be classed as a sweatshop.

Crikey! I believe they call that Modern Day Slavery in the Middle-East

Not sure if the Gulfies or British expats sweat as much in the air-conditioned bubbles.

There are times when people choose to go through some grueling times to get to the prize. When I was a young man I worked a lot in the commercial fishing industry. Living conditions onboard the vessels, and the working conditions were not pleasant. We chose to work at those jobs and under those conditions because we made more money that way, it did not last forever and we were well compensated. When people are backed into a corner and have to live like that or starve is the extreme that most of us are not wanting to see. In the fish plants there were tons of migrant workers and locals who would all do a similar thing for the season. The migrants would cram in many people to a house, and hire a family member to be a support worker and make sure that meals got cooked and laundry done for everyone that was working 16 hour shifts. The Mexicans and the Philippians were very good at figuring out the systems of getting the most people in the house to maximize everyones profits.

Originally Posted by RezDog

There are times when people choose to go through some grueling times to get to the prize. When I was a young man I worked a lot in the commercial fishing industry. Living conditions onboard the vessels, and the working conditions were not pleasant. We chose to work at those jobs and under those conditions because we made more money that way, it did not last forever and we were well compensated. When people are backed into a corner and have to live like that or starve is the extreme that most of us are not wanting to see. In the fish plants there were tons of migrant workers and locals who would all do a similar thing for the season. The migrants would cram in many people to a house, and hire a family member to be a support worker and make sure that meals got cooked and laundry done for everyone that was working 16 hour shifts. The Mexicans and the Philippians were very good at figuring out the systems of getting the most people in the house to maximize everyones profits.

That is part of the reason the industrialized western world can't compete in a global free trade economy. Nobody here wants to live like that for any length of time never mind as the norm for a standard of living.

Bob

Originally Posted by BobH

That is part of the reason the industrialized western world can't compete in a global free trade economy. Nobody here wants to live like that for any length of time never mind as the norm for a standard of living.

Bob

There are small pockets of industries that still choose this kind of work. It is so alien to most people that they actually make a reality show on TV. I doubt they would do that for your average person working an average job. Deadliest Catch does hit some of the points of working in the commercial fishing industry. There are fish plant workers too and in the agricultural industry I am certain that much of the same exhausts there too. Those who participate for the most part choose to do so, I doubt that many in third world countries get to choose.

Originally Posted by RezDog

There are small pockets of industries that still choose this kind of work. It is so alien to most people that they actually make a reality show on TV. I doubt they would do that for your average person working an average job. Deadliest Catch does hit some of the points of working in the commercial fishing industry. There are fish plant workers too and in the agricultural industry I am certain that much of the same exhausts there too. Those who participate for the most part choose to do so, I doubt that many in third world countries get to choose.

Exactly the point, the difference between choosing to do so for short periods of time and having no alternative as a way of life. That is where the non competitiveness comes in with off shore manufacturing of goods such as the Chinese made badger knots discussed in the thread.

Bob