Thread: A Talk of Steel.

I do believe there are standards for steel. If it falls within a standards ( like ASTM ) specifications then it is the same.

The problem with standards is...are they checked? I have heard many stories of grade 8 bolts being required and a contractor went cheap with china "grade 8", and after something broke or collapsed, then they found out sure it was marked grade 8 but it wasn't really grade 8.

So are talking about "cutting corners", just to get a piece out on the market?

Well that is an old story and if they do that it is the same as counterfeiting money. There will be penalties. I think China has learned a lot of lessons as far as standards go. Let's face it, would you buy dog food from China or children's toys ? Not for a long time. And that is what they are learning.

Originally Posted by 10Pups

I do believe there are standards for steel. If it falls within a standards ( like ASTM ) specifications then it is the same.

There are standards for minimum or maximum performance and alloy composition, this is true. However, meeting specifications does not require purity to a specific percentage in every case. One of my bladesmith friends learned this the hard way when "spec" steel was delivered and he blew up ten blades during the first heat treatment run. The "spec'd" steel required a complete retest to learn a different heat treatment regime. It was an expensive lesson especially given the initial investment in a large amount of steel that would have been wasted otherwise. The spectrograph testing indicated at least ten additional alloy elements that simply did not appear in the "spec" and so were not even considered an issue by the steel mill. It met spec, it was what was ordered and delivered.

Quality by country is part of steel's history and cannot be completely excluded. Swedish raw ore was always the best and is one factor that contributed to the political neutrality during the wars. Sides in opposition freely purchased ore to make munitions due to this status.

In the end if quality control during production produces a chemically identical material it makes no difference. But each new batch I get, I test, only because there are variables outside the specifications that are simply not part of the quality equation while they remain well inside what I consider the performance equation. The blades from each new batch are just as good as the last batch, but I have to be flexible and adaptable in my shop practice. Sure, it's a pain in the buttocks, but I'm too cheap to throw away thousands of pounds of perfectly good material when I can change a little here or there. I don't have to bellyache that the steel's not good enough.

My take on the problem anyway. YMMV

Many plusses and thanks to MikeBlue on that one. You can be sure that they steel used in the cheap dime store pocket knives are going through very little quality control. The fact is, used steel is shipped by the container load from here, over to china, and then recycled, and shipped back here. I think its a sad state of affairs that its cheaper to ship back and forth across the globe then it is to recycle it right here. But that's the deal. Blades made from unknown and mixed steels vs steel freshly produced.

Looks like a new idea for an exercise machine Wullie.

There's many factors that contribute to the quality of a blade: carbon content, contaminants, alloy and temper. If you buy a good brand knife you can be sure that rigid quality controls were part of the manufacturing process, with unknown brands it is hit and miss really. Most cheap quality stuff for sale in the West is made in China but that does not necessarily mean the Chinese do not know how to make high quality stuff.

You need to ask yourself whether you need to spend the extra $$ for the jobs you are going to use the knife for.

//Start long rant...
Right or wrong, my prejidice & experience tells me that if you want to offshore something to China, they will build it to the specifications that you require. Price point comes into play I suppose.

If you want good, I think they can make good.
If you want cheap, I think they can make cheap.

I have had a few China knifes. The steel was fine on all of them.
But the pocket knifes fell apart (lock blade knives, screws came out and were lost).

I have never had a Pakastan knife that I liked.

I have two Old Timer fixed blade knives that are the same model, one from USA one from China - I cannot tell the difference apart from the markings (and apart from the fact my wife takes her USA knife to scrape glue off of concrete, pry staples from furniture, and what not with hers...uuuug).

Over the decades I have had cheap USA knifes, and more costly USA knifes.
My favorite brand is Case - and I have never had a problem with the edges on them.
Case have been costly, and I have not had many of them (I tend to loose small knifes every so many years).

My mother in law owns some famouse branded & expensive USA kitchen knifes that I cannot put an edge on - go figure. It is as if they are counter fits - and for all I know they are. How hard is it to put someone else's brand name on a knife....

And I have some kitchen/hunting/fishing/steak blades that I picked up for $4 US or so each, made in USA, that have first rate edges. ($4, that must have been some time back, I cannot imagine they are still $4 with the US Government diluting our money).
The wife's German knives have WAY better handles, and are much heavier - and she likes them.
The German knives are of WAY better quality for sure - and any idiot could tell that right off. But the $4 knives cut just as well. I cannot comment on edge retention, maybe I should investigate how long they stay sharp.

//end long rant
Jody