Thread: saber rattling

Well with respect to the "saber rattling" as originally posted on, here is a great article on it:


Geopolitics: The decline of deterrence | The Economist

Ahh, I see.

Well, the way I view it is like you have to view everything else nowadays: as a market.

There's deterrence supply and demand. At the moment the American supply of deterrence does not seem to be in alignment with the world's demand for deterrence, thus things are out of equilibrium creating inefficiencies.

On the deterrence supply side there are of course costs of production. Cheapest production cost deterrent products are (in order of increasing cost) finger/jaw-wagging, diplomacy, economic sanction, thermonuclear war. Each of these products demands a price of course which is generally commensurate with the cost of production but can demand on other things too like demand for that product. At the moment for example jaw wagging is really cheap to produce but demand for it is low, so no one's buying.

James.

Interesting op-ed on "saber rattling" and Ukraine.

BBC News - Ukraine and Europe's Sleepwalkers

Originally Posted by Splashone

Interesting op-ed on "saber rattling" and Ukraine.

BBC News - Ukraine and Europe's Sleepwalkers

I think its pretty safe to say that everyone is a little bit more than concerned about Obama's not believing war produces sustainable outcomes.

Though I agree with him, and agree that history proves this to be true... I just don't know if the rest of the world sees it yet. Its as though he's the only adult on the stage playing the long-game while the kids test their boundaries.

Change is spooky... we are but a blip in time. Only history will tell.

Originally Posted by earcutter

I think its pretty safe to say that everyone is a little bit more than concerned about Obama's not believing war produces sustainable outcomes.

Though I agree with him, and agree that history proves this to be true... I just don't know if the rest of the world sees it yet. Its as though he's the only adult on the stage playing the long-game while the kids test their boundaries.

Change is spooky... we are but a blip in time. Only history will tell.

America itself is proof that war produces sustainable outcomes. Unless of course you're not including that as part of history. But then again, Obama spent a great deal of time during his first term bemoaning what he called "American Exceptionalism". He went on a great apology tour after winning (being handed) the Nobel Peace prize.

When I served in our military, we believed that America, Americans and the American military certainly were exceptional. I would suggest that if you were to visit Normandy, you might ask some of those who still live there what their opinion is.

As a Veteran, I didn't like war and I still don't. But acting like Obama who believes that all you have to do is "be nice" and your enemy will like or respect you is a fallacy. Putin is taking advantage of this Administation's weakness and the weakness starts from the top down. That's why the President is called the Commander in Chief. That isn't a title that you get to put up on the shelf when things go wrong. You lead from the front with boldness and confidence born of strength. Like it or not, offensive to your sophomoric ears or not, peace is achieved through superior firepower and not through kowtowing to dictators.

There is no politically correct way to kill your enemy. I don't care for Putin, but he's proving just what an amateur your Obama really is.

Frank

Sorry but it all has to do with Money. Who's going to take over the Natural Gas business in Europe ? Which Banks are going to be making the most on the acts ? It's the US and EU economy against the Russian. Follow the money.

Originally Posted by Lakebound

America itself is proof that war produces sustainable outcomes.

I'd have thought you'd pick as an example that war in the 70s instead of Normandy. The one where the US president did follow through on his 'line in the sand' - "Now we have a problem making our power credible and Vietnam looks like the place."

America is a country made by war...literally. But in this day and age, war needs to remain to the absolute last resort. Putin is not exploiting President Obama. He is exploiting the fact that without a coordinated response from Europe and North America nothing can be done to hurt Russia short of "pushing the button." He is counting on the predictable result that ANY response to his actions will be fragmented. I bet he is good at poker!

Lakebound, unless you are carrying a green card or here illegally, Mr. Obama is your president too!

Originally Posted by Splashone

America is a country made by war...literally. But in this day and age, war needs to remain to the absolute last resort. Putin is not exploiting President Obama. He is exploiting the fact that without a coordinated response from Europe and North America nothing can be done to hurt Russia short of "pushing the button." He is counting on the predictable result that ANY response to his actions will be fragmented. I bet he is good at poker!

Lakebound, unless you are carrying a green card or here illegally, Mr. Obama is your president too!

He's not my President. He's the current President of the United States.

"Dissent is the Highest form of Patriotism". - Hillary Clinton, Jan 21, 2009

Frank

Originally Posted by gugi

I'd have thought you'd pick as an example that war in the 70s instead of Normandy. The one where the US president did follow through on his 'line in the sand' - "Now we have a problem making our power credible and Vietnam looks like the place."

Although yours is another fine example, it didn't dovetail with my position of Obama's own difficulty of "American Exceptionalism". I wasn't going to address the "line in the sand" issue with this current Administration.

Frank