saber rattling

No need to piss off the Admins here by disagreeing with them. I see that when you have a different opinion here other than one's only backed up by Snopes, the team comes out of the woodwork to engage in ad hominem and show of force. (I.E. You're entitled to your opinion, but only mine counts, et. al)

No problem boys, I see that this is your sandbox and I'm just a Guest here, I'll move away from the conversation now. I see this happening almost on every sub forum here on SRP. That's unfortunate too, Mr. Abrams is a class act and has been good to me and others who I have referred to SRD. I'll stick to buying razors and honing services from him but the one way "Admins are always right" BS isn't worth it.

Frank

Trying to paint yourself as some sort of victim here isn't going to work either. People disagree with me all the time, and I am more than happy to argue with logical arguments.

I was clear that your wasting my time what would lead me to ignore you. You explicitly asked me to provide you with references only to declare once they were provided that you actually have no use for them.

I told you you can disagree all you like, but that is at your own expense, the facts remain the facts. For example the program you are referring to was crated not by Obama but by another president which is now dead - Reagan. The bills were passed just like any other bill in congress and signed by the sitting president. Deny it as much as you wish the truth is not going to change.

You can not make your opinion count by simply wanting it to - your refusal to base it on facts is what invalidates it. I most certainly serve as administrator on this site, but that is completely irrelevant to the validity of your argument.

If you want to view and present yourself as a victim that is your own choice, but the only thing you are a victim of is your ignorance and refusal to correct that.

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Originally Posted by Lakebound

No need to piss off the Admins here by disagreeing with them. I see that when you have a different opinion here other than one's only backed up by Snopes, the team comes out of the woodwork to engage in ad hominem and show of force. (I.E. You're entitled to your opinion, but only mine counts, et. al)

No problem boys, I see that this is your sandbox and I'm just a Guest here, I'll move away from the conversation now. I see this happening almost on every sub forum here on SRP. That's unfortunate too, Mr. Abrams is a class act and has been good to me and others who I have referred to SRD. I'll stick to buying razors and honing services from him but the one way "Admins are always right" BS isn't worth it.

Frank

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Frank I am sorry you feel this way. Mods can have an opinion To no?? No one is ganging up on you because of your views. You don't honestly think you are the only one who feels this way or has said what you did on these forums before??

There are plenty of mods here who are VERY right leaning. The only issue at hand here is you insisting that we take your word for something that others have good evidence against. Don't get mad, find proof to support your opinion... which will turn opinion into something with legs.

You know how it is on the net Frank - people can say whatever they want, and do. You might very well may be right, but prove it. Its how gentleman banter. Everything else is hearsay. You know?

While the concept of an Obama phone is false in that HE did not provide any new services to people, the idea that it's not true in any respect is also false. The phones in question are provided by what is said to be a non profit organization called Universal Sevice. I work in the telecom industry and spent some time in the area of compliance. The money does come from telecom carriers but to say that their contributions are voluntary would be a flat out lie. USF was set up by the Federal govt and act on its behalf. Paying into these funds is nothing more than a tax and failing to do so bring on all the same problems of not paying taxes. I worked at companies that were exempt and others that were not. This is not the doing of Obama but it IS the doing of govt.

Wait so the "Obama phones" were set up by Regan? How did Obama's name get attached to the project?

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Originally Posted by Christel

Wait so the "Obama phones" were set up by Regan? How did Obama's name get attached to the project?

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That's the propaganda part. When Reagan signed the original program into law there were no cell phones (at least not in the current form). One can look up the bills and their evolution and see how they happened, who voted for, who voted against...

But that requires work and the results may not line up quite nicely with the ideologically convenient narrative of 'Obama is taking the hard-earned money from good hard-working americans to provide luxuries to the lazy bums'.

Obama, or Reagan , government does not give anything they did not first take (by threat ) from someone else who earned it to give to those who don't earn ,, just to clarify " just my opinion and many thousands of hard working Americans. Tc

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Originally Posted by tcrideshd

Obama, or Reagan , government does not give anything they did not first take (by threat ) from someone else who earned it to give to those who don't earn ,, just to clarify " just my opinion and many thousands of hard working Americans. Tc

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The vast majority of hard working Americans get More from their government than they give too their government in terms of dollars and cents.

A free market... with all the infrastructure needed to maintain it. Stability, with all the police and military to maintain that! Subsidized food, gas, electricity... The list is extensive and generally inconceivable!

You get good value for your tax dollars!

Its unfortunate that so many think they should get more - what's worse is those who want what they have, and that of others too, AND want to also deny others lol!

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Originally Posted by earcutter

The vast majority of hard working Americans get More from their government than they give too their government in terms of dollars and cents.

A free market... with all the infrastructure needed to maintain it. Stability, with all the police and military to maintain that! Subsidized food, gas, electricity... The list is extensive and generally inconceivable!

You get good value for your tax dollars!

Its unfortunate that so many think they should get more - what's worse is those who want what they have, and that of others too, AND want to also deny others lol!

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How does the Government provide a free market? The Government does not make anything. It takes from the people via taxes and distributes it as it sees fit.

Frank

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Originally Posted by Lakebound

How does the Government provide a free market? The Government does not make anything. It takes from the people via taxes and distributes it as it sees fit.

Frank

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Ok there is really no such thing as a "free market." There never will be... or could be. Lets just call it a market!

Does the government give us the market - well no. We provide the market and the government. They have to go hand in hand. But if you want to get into a "big thoughts" debate lol...

Without us producing a government, we couldn't regulate a market. Is it possible to have a "free" market without regulation?? Short answer - no. Without government ensuring "perfect information" - there would be no market either. Hell, without government ensuring access for all to the market via roads, via data, via... there would be no market.

GOVERNMENT IS A FUNCTION OF CIVILIZATION!! A national market is civilized as is a global one. you benefit from this!!

If you want to trade with just those with whom you have access too - cool! I need access to people with more money than my friends lol!!

Finally Frank - I understand your frustration with how taxes are distributed, everyone is. But that's a democracy - democracy's discriminate. If you think they distribute as they see fit - you need to take a civics class lol! Sorry - but your perception and reality isn't the same thing.