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Our grand leader needs to have his mouth sewn shut IMO.
In the past two days he has told North Korea,we will use all our military might to defend south Korea,the north Koreans are neanderthals, do you think they actually care what Mr O says?
Is going to impose new Sanctions On Russia over the Ukraine debacle,do you think Putin gives a rats Azz?
Getting back into the issues in Syria again,why do we need this crap?
I WANT PEACE, The currant U.S regime is leading us into a hell hole. Rant over
It seems that Obama has to be seen to be doing something - although you might be right in suspecting that it may well be futile.
Staying in power is about confidence - Obama arguably can't just stand back. When you rise to what arguably constitutes an colonial empire as America has (in the Latin sense of a paternal obligation of a foreign land) then there are always threats to this. You may well lament that America finds itself in this position and not without cause but it seems that it is one that cannot be dispensed with quickly or easily. Obama arguably has to appear strong - a lot seems to ride on confidence of this, vis: protecting image on an international stage.
Yea, it is easier to assume the post of superpower/colonial empire either by default or willingly than to cast it off. That is the position Mr. O is in, he has to act the part and convincingly so. It goes with the territory. I wonder if Mr. Putin is suffering from withdrawal from the loss of the Soviet/Colonial Empire? Makes you wonder if he wants some or all of the former glory days back. Whatever they are playing at it is a risky business.
Bob
Well, at least he's only talking, to not respond in some manner, or at all, is in fact a response, so the Administration is taking a "position". Which in my opinion is much more reasoned than declaring yourself a, "War President", then doing your best to go and find one.
It’s all about the coming elections, the only reason he does anything. So they can spin it.
He could care less about world opinion…they can’t vote.
Our next president will have a job on their hands, hope they have a big shovel.
Extreamily risky Bussiness,American Military Might? we have downgraded it to bare bones,our navy and air force are making due with old tech,
We sold all our Humvees to pakastan,we are all show and no go at this point,JMO
I don't know about that. I think he is doing what any US President would have to do to try and maintain the USA's preeminent world position in the current circumstances. That is regardless of political affiliation, looming elections or world opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
Bob
+1 to Bob
As I mentioned, the Administration has to take a position, and it is a position against an act of invasion against a sovereign country.
Canada has responded as well, sheesh, we've even sent, I think, all 7 of our fighter jets, and our Prime Minister has taken a very harsh position towards Putin as well.
“Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.”
― Dietrich Bonhoeffer
The US still spends as much on the military as the rest of the world combined.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
And what he is doing is the same as every president before him. It's a job requirement. The US citizens want it that way.
Just hope it is not, on Putin's part, shades of taking back the Rhineland and then Sudetenland and you know the rest of the story. Saber rattling is all fun and games till somebody looses an eye then the crap really starts.
Bob
Yes, he is saying what is expected, but no one in the rest of the world believes him. It is just another Red Line that he did or did not draw, depending on the political ramifications.
What he will do is eventually say something that he will have to back up with American lives. So for now his solution is to send Kerry and Biden (Cheech and Chong) to show our resolve and solve the problem?
The Ukrainian people are offended and should be. Biden offers 50 million in bribe money, to fight corruption? America under the current administration does not have a track record for backing their friends and many see their actions for what they are. As one Ukrainian said, “The US made a shi_ sandwich, and now Putin is forcing them to eat it.” This is America’s foreign policy.
Do you think Putin or Kim would be acting up, if Romney was President?
The sanctions that have been imposed on these countrys do not bother me at all.
What bothers me is having our grand leader tell a country, you mess with our friends, we will use all our military might against you.
Those are fightin words.
Is like going into a bar and proclaiming that you are the meanest, baddest, strongest guy on the planet.
What happens next is usually some little pissant guy will Kick your Azz
Why would he be taken seriously? He opened his administration by giving away a missile shield in Eastern Europe to Putin for absolutely nothing in return. Then goes on an apology tour around the world making it obvious that he doesn't intend to operate in the same ways of other presidents. Add in the handling of Benghazi and Syria and it's no wonder all he has is hot air to offer up. And his enemies know this and will act accordingly. And don't forget Romney was laughed off stage for suggesting that Putin was dangerous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
That's just too sweeping of a statement. Actually, now that I have lived here for 7 years, I would say that is factually incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Its way more complex than I am going to make it, but in effort to keep it simple... Allow me to sweep lol.
Democracy doesn't run the same way in America as it does in other countries. The majority here, the vast majority, can want something and be completely denied it even if the President runs on that platform.
Money buys policy here - the pubic be damned. Hence, saying the Americans want it is factually incorrect. I know that they push fair elections around the world bla, bla, bla... but elections are bought and sold here. Many citizens here feel as removed as some feel in fasciest states lol!
I'll never understand why people think Obama is a pushover lol! The man is dangerous. He isn't saber rattling... no, no. He'll get what he wants - he'll just be smiling as he does it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
...or an Arch Duke!Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
I wasn't intimating that Mr. O was a pushover, really don't know if he is or isn't. Just saying the way things stand now it will only take an instance or two of local area commanders acting independantly doing something really rash to leave either side with no way out without loosing face. That would put it past any compromise diplomatic solution and land everyone in the soup.Quote:
Originally Posted by earcutter
Bob
Hey sorry Bob - I linked the wrong post lol!!Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
No sweat, I was a little puzzled is all.Quote:
Originally Posted by earcutter
Bob
This is how I see and feel it is. The Supreme Court has recently sold the people out to 'fat cat' big money. The 'War Machine' is alive and well in America get use to it. :roflmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by earcutter
But you must understand,without the war machine,many billions would be lost to american industrys and 100s of thousands of jobs lost.
We cannot stop now,the war monger business is just to big,gotta keep it going.:(
Sadly, that must mean Eisenhower was correct all those years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
Bob
Yes he was,this country relies on war to keep it going,is no money in peace.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
WW2 pulled us out of the graet depression. lot of Jobs, lots of money for the workers.
Than you have all the non-wars since (undelared) they all drive the american economy,Mark my words,in a year, maybe two we will have a need to get envolved in another war,any war just to provide jobs and feed the war machine that feeds industry that feeds the workers.
Sadly, is no way out of the cycle.
From certain point of views that is correct, but the buying and selling happens with the willing participation of the voters. The days of stuffed ballot boxes and direct exchange of money/goods for votes are pretty much gone, or more correctly they exist as a straw-man smokescreen that those who do the real vote purchasing use as a distraction.Quote:
Originally Posted by earcutter
The way it works is that more money buys better advertisement and louder advertisement and a lot of votes are based on that. And of course people are convinced they vote the way they do because of their principles, beliefs, self-interests, etc. - that's why it works so well. Choosing to live in a self-selected bubble of ideology beats dictatorship any time.
That used to be the way it WAS. No more. Iraq and America's going in alone, has cost us dearly!! I am not sure that wars bill is even on the books yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
Did some Americans make money? Yup... Not enough to pay for it though. Not by a long shot. Not even close.
Yes to getting leaders into power. Propaganda machine works well. And really you only have two choices.Quote:
Originally Posted by gugi
Absolute no as to what makes it in the form of a Bill! Which is all that matters.
It’s not that he’s a push over, it’s that no one believes what he says, because he changes what he say with the polls.
There is an election coming and he has nothing to run on, in fact many of his party are running away… from him.
So he will sacrifice American lives to spin his great foreign policy to get votes from the intellectually lazy. He is dangerous… what is sad is he single handedly squandered American lives and influence in the world. He smells the blood in the water and will do and say anything to keep power.
This is what he said in 2007 when he ran. “The disappointment that so many around the world feel toward America right now is only a testament to the high expectations they hold for us. We must meet those expectations again, not because being respected is an end in itself, but because the security of America and the wider world demands it.”
Do you feel more secure 7 years later? Sadly, now the expectations around the world are not that high. The best you got is Kerry and Biden?
Actually, I wholeheartedly agreed with him! How can you tell a country to stop doing what they are doing when you yourself are doing it. America sells itself on being the moral backbone of the world. There is a reason we put god onto our money and pledge when the country was founded on separation of church and state.Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
After a while if you keep saying do as I say not as I do... People stop listening. As was the case in Iraq! This has to stop if America is to be the leader it proposes to be.
Anyway...
As for war, the best way to keep your party in power if history is to believed, is to go to war lol!
The thing is - the world needs to back America now if she is to go to war. America can't afford to do it alone. America be broke... Tax breaks are a bugger hu lol!!
I would disagree here. Some would argue that WWII did not end the depression directly. More important was the suspension of the New Deal policies that helped end the depression. The policy changes were brought about in reaction to the war effort but Austrian economics suggests that war was not needed to do that. In fact, Austrian economic theory also suggests that the war machine in and of itself represents lost opportunity. While we may need these instruments of war, they do nothing to further economic conditions since their use is for one single purpose. They do not help bring goods and services to people at better and better prices (the true measure of economic development). Instead they represent resources that were diverted to a purpose that produce nothing in terms of further development. Any politician that uses the war machine to benefit the economy is only benefiting a sliver of the economy and more likely personal investments.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
Well, I agree partly. What he does is the result of the political process, which still works the way the majority of the people want it to work. Or at least, no majority can be found to change things. You're too busy fighting each other to realize that that is exactly what 'they' want. To compromize is to lose and to cooperate with the enemy ('republican or democrat, depending on your own views) is considered traitorous.Quote:
Originally Posted by earcutter
I love that :). Its like... Duh! Lol!Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDshaver
Read the Book Freedoms forge by Arthur Herman,is about how WW2 put millions of people back to work after the depression.Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDshaver
Read the newspaper today about how 10s of thousands of military people are now out of work.
Beall air force base just north of me is phasing out the stealth Bomber program,this is having a negative effect on many thousands of people in the area.
Granted Iran, afghanistan etc has sucked trillions from the federal Govt,but thats only one side of the overall economy in this country.
So I heard one of the Presidents talking heads say it is a “Jobless recovery”. What does that mean? Is that like powdered water, just add water and you have… water.
The only thing recovering is the stock market because we’re pumping money into it.
Did you know? FHA announced on August 15, 2013 that you may only need to wait one year to be able to buy again under the FHA’s Back to Work Program. FHA is willing to back loans for borrowers with as little as 3.50% down payment after having had a short sale, bankruptcy, or foreclosure.
We learned… Nothing, or are we buying votes?
GDP grows - but jobs aren't created.Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
Its like a factory that puts in cheap and efficient robots. The bottom line grows-they make more money, but contribute to the community less. Good for a co - bad for a nation.
America is very, VERY efficient! Good for GDP but bad for many living under said GDP. Eventually, if it gets too efficient and too many people are out of work, it all implodes. Who's going to buy all that stuff built so cheap?? That is unless the whole economy changes.. And that's not going to happen any time soon here.
Hope that helps??
As good as any explanation that I have seen for a "jobless recovery". We are stuck in the same situation here too. At one time when stock markets went up so did employment, now there is no such correlation. The S&P 500 is now at higher level than before the 08 crash and burn yet the jobs have not returned to the same or greater levels. The money is being concentrated upwards. If you are in the middle class or lower economically you are screwed for the time being. Just be glad you are not a college/university grad just starting out Generation Screwed - The Bottom Line .Quote:
Originally Posted by earcutter
Bob
It stands to reason that in a jobless recovery, that companies are making more money. This generation is screwed :(.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
We live in a changing world and the policies of old don't work any more. I don't care who the pres is be it democrat or republican the result will only be what we have now or worse. Couple that with the polarization in the country and the Congress and it's the perfect recipe for the current situation.
All the typical right wing posturing against Obama doesn't help. In my book the pres has a solution to an issue and implements it and it fails he owns it. When Congress won't allow him to do his job they own the issues(s).
Unfortunately we have a lot of people in this country who have drunk the cool aid and again and again vote against their own interests to act like a bot army for the rich and powerful.
I understand what you are saying. And national defense IS necessary. But when I say that it's a lost opportunity, it's simply that it doesn't directly bring us goods and services at better prices. We need it because we have to have a secure nation to enjoy what we have. Bit it's investment in the other areas that make our lives better. Those people that were put back to work would have served us better if they were making clothes, appliances, building factories, working in R&D, etc. it's those efficiencies in the economy that make it possible for average people to sit down to dinner and have what would have been considered an absolute feast by yesterday's standards. It's the reason I'm typing this on an iPad and we're able to communicate in this way. While tanks and ships may be necessary, the best we can hope for is some spin off technology as a byproduct of the defense industry. It's valuable and needed but in a perfect world we would be directing those resources to things that make direct contributions to the quality of our lives. Unfortunately the world is not inherently as peaceful as we would like so we employ people to build stealth bombers. And when we make changes to the number of bombers we make, it has an impact on that group of people. The demand for those products are determined by politics and world events instead of the market.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
Yea, can't say companies are unprofitable and they are taking the profits and the tax breaks and using this growing capital to invest , as you say, in being more efficient yet, or sit on it, or invest offshore or other things that do not create jobs where they made the profit. They should rename "trickle down economics" to a gravity defying "trickle up economics" if they really wanted to be truthful. Ya bin sucker punched again.Quote:
Originally Posted by earcutter
Bob
Well, the bills are made by the elected officials (or the unelected staff they appoint). Of course, the politicians are not experts and don't know how to solve the problems, but their job is to find those experts and not allow vested interests to create bad policies. That's exactly where they fail, but they do not get punished for making bad policy. They get punished for failing to run a good propaganda machine, especially when they advocate for good policy.Quote:
Originally Posted by earcutter
But it is still the voters who provide the feedback, so America is exactly what America wants (the majority of it). Reelection rate in congress is still at essentially 90%, and hasn't dipped under 85% for ages.
It is a systemic problem therefore it isn't going to change anytime soon - the last populist movement was the teaparty and it failed miserably, due to what it looks like rigid ideology which means incompetence.
It is lost opportunity only when it is disproportionate. That's where opinions vary, but I don't think anybody here can do the necessary calculations to show which is the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDshaver
You have to compare whether the 'looting' that the US military dominance allows is more than the cost of that dominance. I am using the word 'looting' loosely mostly because it parallels the historical analogues. These days it's not done in the crude old ways, but there certainly is no mistake that the economic dominance in the world of US is propped by its military dominance.
You can't change the world order overnight either, otherwise it would be a disaster which at this point may lead to the end of humans, so things would continue they way they are for quite some time.
Well... I think with emerging markets, trickle down does work (to a degree). When the economy has matured such as Canada's and the US, in today's economic climate, it has proven to not work.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
But the generation running things today, went to school when they were still selling it hard for all economy's. Hence in some circles, powerful circles, to debate that dogma is akin to being a commie.
What's worse, those making policy that are rich, are benefiting and couldn't care less for the working poor. They call em lazy. The poor in places of power who are poor with net worth less than a couple million, buy into the notion that they one day will be rich... Its a vicious cycle.
Meanwhile, the facts are that wage desparity is back to the great depression levels... So people protest Wall St. They are called bums and the propaganda machine sells the fools who should be protesting to call for them to be jailed lol!
Then the rich say we need smaller government!! Well if you make that happen, in America anyway, the middle class will disappear. But they have the fools pushing for it!
In an advanced economy, you have to have big gov! Its a function of civilization! Tell me? Can you take the time to run down to the nuclear power plants and tell me if they are dumping heavey water in the river you get your drinking water lol? Nope! We need big gov but... The rich don't.
Its crazy lol!
Edit... Sorry, that turned into a rant. No trickle down doesn't work here, but thinking it does is pushed forward because it benefits the 1%. Oddly enough, the 99% keep buying into it thinking they actually will be rich one day lol!
As history marvels at the German population for being duped, so will future generations marvel at us... Unless education is banned lol! And in America, education is becoming a thing for the few.
I disagree,when WW2 started,the entire US automotive industry was shut down along with countless businesses that supplied them.Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDshaver
The factorys,ford, chevy,etc were re-tooled for the war effort and allowed the dis-placed workers to go back to work.
Wars create Jobs that in turn allow people to buy homes and feed themselves.
When the stealth Bomber program ends,it is not just the people that work on them that are effected,it is the mom and pop stores, the taco bell, etc
The ripple effect will be huge in a regeon that already is very poor (Yuba city).
When the military re-locates hundreds of familys,schools will close,the housing market will collapse,many people other than military personal will be out of work and in turn drawing unemployment and welfare,now that drains the economy bigtime.