saber rattling

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

All the typical right wing posturing against Obama doesn't help. In my book the pres has a solution to an issue and implements it and it fails he owns it. When Congress won't allow him to do his job they own the issues

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Keep in mind that Congress has no obligation to go along with anything the pres is trying to sell. Congress is the legislative branch and the pres has the obligation to work with them to get things done. If he can't, it may be more of a shortcoming on his behalf than theirs. They too were elected and their elections had consequences too. Each of them represent a group of Americans and those Americans may not agree with this pres. And just because he want to take on an issue and disrupt a sector of our lives and economy doesn't mean the rest of Congress owns what he was willing to throw in disarray for political purposes. In reality if the pres fails, HE doesn't own it, we do. When his stimulus failed to do anything (something the "typical right wing posturing" predicted) who owned the tab on that? We did. And if his health care experiment fails who will own that? We will. Considering all the harm they are good for, I want them doing as little for me as possible. I don't know that the right wing posturing helps but acquiescing to his whims is not a better choice in my opinion. Like every pres before him, he has to answer his critics. Administrations come and go, the electorate remains. They are more obligated to acquiesce to us tha we to them. They know that so they get you fighting about rich vs poor, race vs race, guns, abortion, religion, etc. all designed to distract you from recognizing how well you might be able to exist without them.

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Originally Posted by gugi

I think he also may have wanted to be that post-partisan president of red-white-and-blue america from his candidate speeches. He completely dismantled the powerful propaganda machine he had for the campaign, which personally surprised me a lot, as people tend to not simply give up that sort of power.

He wasn't completely naive about politics because most of his significant appointments were from the old highly experienced pool with serious ties to Clinton.

It's also a lot of fun to dig the old threads from 2008 and see what people were posting back then and compare to how things happened :)

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Yeah... I don't know if that's such a good idea lol! That would really be a slap in my face... Wait!! I wasn't here then lol! Home free!! Woot.

All said and done, I understand where the OPs concerns lay. Though in all honesty, I have to conclude that him keeping his mouth shut (Obama) wouldn't be what I want in these times. I am not even sure I would call his remarks heavy handed. I mean technically, we are still at war with N. Korea.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

I disagree,when WW2 started,the entire US automotive industry was shut down along with countless businesses that supplied them.
The factorys,ford, chevy,etc were re-tooled for the war effort and allowed the dis-placed workers to go back to work.
Wars create Jobs that in turn allow people to buy homes and feed themselves.
When the stealth Bomber program ends,it is not just the people that work on them that are effected,it is the mom and pop stores, the taco bell, etc

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And when those workers made tanks that went up against German tanks and ships that went up against German and Japanese ships, or planes that went up against other planes, one of the two ships ended up on the ocean floor. A plane ended up sunk in the ocean or crashed and burned on dry land. Tank A destroys tank B. These assets are lost forever. Yes we put people to work but it was work that could ONLY exist during war, making assets that would end up on the bottom of the ocean is an example of a missed opportunity. It was necessary but not optimal.

Yes the right still goes with the argument the stimulus was a failure however they are responsible for the stimulus not being large enough to do what it was supposed to have done. In the past it was Govt spending that initially got the U.S out of rough financial problems.

Does congress represent the people? Many would say they represent the monied interests that control them. Time and time again issues that are favored by the public have no chance with the Congress.

You mean his health care experiment that was originally a republican idea?

See you doubt it before it's fully inplemented. It's a success in Mass. and it will be in the U.S as a whole. So what is the right wing alternative???

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Originally Posted by gugi

I think the second part of TARP, economic stimulus, Dodd-Frank, Obamacare, and the gasoline efficiency standards for motor vehicles are the biggest items.

The free Obamaphones is just poor information turned into propaganda for specific segment.

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Care to cite a reference for us? Where I work, we monitor the phone calls of our "residents". I stopped counting the number of family members on the streets that brag about how many "free Obama phones" (their words, not mine) that they have. Some of the phones have yet to be activated.

So, while you may think that the free phones are "poor information" turned propaganda, you're paying for them with taxes that have been levied against you and against me in various ways to include surcharges on your cellular bill.

Frank

Obama Phone - Free Phones for People on Welfare? - Urban Legends

snopes.com: Free 'ObamaPhones' for Welfare Recipients

https://www.safelinkwireless.com/Enr...c/NewHome.html

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Originally Posted by Lakebound

Care to cite a reference for us?

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I was, but somebody else was faster than me. But here's how you could've gotten started on your own Let me google that for you

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Originally Posted by Lakebound

So, while you may think that the free phones are "poor information" turned propaganda, you're paying for them with taxes that have been levied against you and against me in various ways to include surcharges on your cellular bill.

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It is always better to make statements based on facts than on speculation or random people's words. I have looked into those programs, their origin and their funding, but as far as I can tell you haven't. Take a look at the links in the previous post, they should help.

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Originally Posted by gugi

I was, but somebody else was faster than me. But here's how you could've gotten started on your own Let me google that for you


It is always better to make statements based on facts than on speculation or random people's words. I have looked into those programs, their origin and their funding, but as far as I can tell you haven't. Take a look at the links in the previous post, they should help.

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I'll take my real world experience of actually listening to real phone calls over "snopes" anyday. I don't speculate about the conversations that I actually listen to. As to the "links", there are joke, it seems like those on the left always have their bookmarked talking points ready to go when someone challenges the welfare state and her subjects.

Makes no difference to me if people in this Country want to ignore what I have actually heard with my own ears. Google it, Snopes it, whatever you like. Bottom line is that there are "free phones" that the Federal Government is subsidizing whether you want to admit it or not.

Frank

Hey it's a free country. You can believe anything you want. I only thought you may like to know what the truth is, but that is not a requirement.

I answered your request for references, and would greatly appreciate if in the future you do not waste my time asking for information that you have already decided to dismiss without giving it any consideration. My time is valuable and you can waste it only so many times before I start ignoring you completely. I do not like to ignore people and would prefer they do not force me to.

Hey, don't try and convince people with the truth or evidence after all they have already believed the rumors or hype so why should they want to accept anything else.