Just to throw a fly in the ointment, Flu season and the winter crud is just around the corner you know feaver, chills, sweating the works. Wonder how many cases will be misdiagnosed as can't do anything for you it is a virus going around.
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Just to throw a fly in the ointment, Flu season and the winter crud is just around the corner you know feaver, chills, sweating the works. Wonder how many cases will be misdiagnosed as can't do anything for you it is a virus going around.
I'm stationed at the US Army Medical Research Materiel Command at Fort Detrick, so we're right in the middle of all this ebola stuff. This topic came up last week, and is a very real concern. We had the same issues during the anthrax and dirty bomb threats a few years back. Our biggest issue when things like this get into metropolitan areas is how to triage - meaning how to quickly determine who just has random symptoms vs who is actually very sick/exposed.Quote:
Originally Posted by hidestoart
It is rather interesting that the Cruise ship that has the Lab Tech on board form the Dallas Hospital was denied docking privileges in Belize and in Mexico specifically for that reason...
Sounds to me like some countries have no problem to err on the side of caution... We also know that this is a purely political response, but it was a response..
Remember that she has NOT tested positive for Ebola in fact she is at 19 or 20 days after POSSIBLE exposure
Yep you are spot on. This has been my concern since the first talk of it escaping West Africa. I have traveled 36 countries in the world. In 2001 I was on a flight to Porto madrin from Uruguay - Montevideo it was a small plane. There were 12 of us and not two of us from the same country. I got sick after that flight as well as 4 others it was some sort of virus that ruined a week of diving. You are the expert here but it would seem to be a problematic not knowing how to triage even for a small town doctor thus causing it to keep moving.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorEthanolic
The problem is that the initial symptoms are all the same - nausea, vomiting, etc. That could be anything from ebola to flu to radiation sickness. We're doing a lot of studies to develop quick tests for TRIAGE in order to identify actual problems vs ordinary sickness.Quote:
Originally Posted by hidestoart
I always say that when things seem to make absolutely no sense that you have to ask yourself, under what circumstances DO they make sense. Then you get to think real hard about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Major, i am sure you have seen malaria when it is active. You are right everything starts out about the same. Hospitals being over run with panic taxing the system. People at home with the it's just the flu attitude Seems to me the best bet now is to get a flu shot in order to help stop the spread of flu so it is not taxing the system as well.
Mark my words on this one. The pharmaceutical companies that took the time and experience to work on this when it was of little concern are the great hope now but when they stsrt making money they will be no good SOB's that don't care about the 99%
Quote:
Originally Posted by hidestoart
Pharmaceuticals and their deals with our government are one of the biggest problems we have with healthcare. They get a monopoly, even though tax dollars fund everything up to the patent. But they have really good lobbyist. There's a reason that things like the Hep C vaccine cost 10,000% more here than anywhere else in the world.
THANK YOU! I have friends in the healthcare industry and thank goodness the cold/flu season hasn't really kicked off.Quote:
Originally Posted by hidestoart
I minored in Biology due to my interest in virus's and bacteria in the late 80's-early 90's...hemorrhagic fever was around then & it was common speak that there were a couple military locations like Ft. Detrick, one or two private labs, and of course CDC who had vaults of the bad stuff to test/play with and of course vaccines for said bad stuff. Unless this was lies & I truly doubt it, where is all of this information/research now? You can't tell me such a bad virus (and old) has not been researched more than is being told...unless the testing is "classified" due to folks not liking that the government was involved in biological warfare testing. Furthermore, you can't tell me that there isn't a vaccine for it in some vault deep underground. I can't help it but feel my conspiracy theory meter is climbing & I truly try to stay informed to see through the bull crap. Is it a money thing? Is it a way to get a rfid in everyone "vaccinated"? Is it population genocide? Is this "ebola scare" some sort of re-direction? Hard not to let some thoughts go rampant when there is so much bull, actions, and lack of actions going on.
Ok, rant over...:soapbox:
In the case of the Canadian vaccine now in human trials at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in the USA, the vaccine was developed at a Canadian government lab in Winnipeg MB and licensed out to be manufactured. So in this case no pharmaceutical company was really concerned in it's development. I bet they sure as heck are rubbing their hands now that they have the rights to produce it. I think you can thank the Canadian tax payer and the dedicated small group of people who kept at it for over a decade to get there all the while fighting for continued and sufficient funding. So NO, the pharmaceutical industry gets no praise from me. They were too busy making money on the likes of Viagra and indigestion pills during that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by hidestoart
More info How a Winnipeg lab became an Ebola research powerhouse - Manitoba - CBC News
Bob
We work with Health Canada a lot. I have a device going through approval for treating MS up there now. Medically, the FDA and Health Canada are very in-tuned.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
U.S. hospitals gird for Ebola panic as flu season looms
By Bill Berkrot and Yasmeen Abutaleb
NEW YORK (Reuters) - A young woman complaining of abdominal pain and nausea who had traveled to Africa arrived at a Long Island hospital fearful that she had contracted Ebola. She did not have the virus, but the pregnancy test was positive.
I have a couple of questions. Why is there not a national push for flu vaccines this year to head off a system overload ? Who is the surgeon general and why are they not coming forward with anything to calm the public besides (we have everything under control)
And lastly the new Ebola czar that has no medical background was chief of staff for Al Gore and Joe Biden was this choice to install confidence in the American people?
Conspiracy or stupidity I am thinking it could go either way on that one.
The flu shot is free up here in this province but we still have people including health professionals that refuse to get it. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
Bob
The republicans in the congress have blocked the appointment of a new surgeon general.Quote:
Originally Posted by hidestoart
All doctors or just who the president wanted?Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorEthanolic
I don't know what you mean about a lack of a national push for the flu vaccine. I'm seeing TV PSAs, billboards, signs in stores, clinics, hospitals...you name it, where I live. But this year's vaccine production has indeed been slowed due to manufacturing issues. Although some vaccine has been distributed, the full supply isn't expected to be available until the end of October, not September as is the normal target. Here's what one of the major manufactures had to say about the delay:Quote:
Originally Posted by hidestoart
“In our case, a portion of our flu vaccines supply has been delayed due to production difficulties that we experienced at a manufacturing facility outside of Montreal,” said Robert Perry, a spokesman for GlaxoSmithKline.
“Vaccines manufacturing is an inherently complex undertaking. When vaccines batches fail quality-assurance tests at any stage of the process, we discard them and start over. This is the primary reason for some of our vaccines being delayed, and it reflects that that patient safety trumps all else, particularly shipping considerations,” he added."
Your question about the Surgeon General is an excellent one. The answer is that there is no Surgeon General. The President's nominee, Dr. Vivek Murthy, has not been confirmed, primarily due to resistance that is backed by the gun lobby (please: no one jump my case... this is a factual statement, not a political one!). I have no doubt that the SG would be speaking out... if we had one.
Since it's the president who appoints, it's up to him, but congress has to approve. They've blocked even the filling of lower level courts.Quote:
Originally Posted by hidestoart
Heres a Factual statment,Obamas Ebola Czar,is not a Medical Doctor,I;E, MD he has a PHD in Law.
Like I've said before - I understand the choice, but it's not the choice I would have made.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzanda
This absolutely true. And it's a shame that the president had to turn the SG position into a political position and force this opposition. If he were to show respect for the different branches of our govt instead of trying to force the outcome over all else, his appointment would have probably been confirmed long ago. I don't blame republicans or the NRA. I'm as appalled by the pick as they are and support the opposition. Considering his appointment of this czar, I'm not convinced that his SG nominee would have done us much good anyway.
Here's the problem with this comment - the president was elected, and therefore has certain privileges as president - including making appointments. If Romney had won, I would be criticizing the dems for blocking his appointments. Obama won, and the republicans need to get over it.Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDshaver
Yes... this is important and will have big financial impact.Quote:
Originally Posted by hidestoart
The silver lining is that all the basic personal actions like washing hands,
using hand sanitizer, cleaning surfaces, sanitation in the kitchen are all
important for the containment of both flu, ebola and 50 more common problems.
My plan is:
Wash my hands when I come home.
Wash my hands before meals.
Wash my hands before shaving and brushing my teeth.
Wash and keep clean common surfaces in the house.
If there is a local event I might even let my whiskers grow
just to minimize any nick that allows bugs to get under
my skin.
I have recently and will again donate blood because there
are many needs and too many may stay home. My local
blood donation center is small and isolated from the affiliated
hospital.
All these sanitation issues apply if there was no ebola outbreak
especially for shaving with any device.
Many years I pass on the flu shot... but not this year.
I want to eliminate the impact of the flu on my local
health care system.
When this fan hit the stuff big time I started looking at symptoms vs. problems and wasQuote:
Originally Posted by hidestoart
astounded to see 50+ problems that are nearly impossible to separate from Ebola for
the first 48 hours. The big difference was travel and having visited a hot zone. No other
symptom was as specific as travel history.
The big one was influenza and a monster fatality count in the US.
Next was food poisoning of a couple types.
Then there was Norwalk Virus which has wrecked many travel plans.
Norwalk Virus is interesting because cruise ships have been so badly
impacted by this very contagious virus that they have very active virus
containment programs. The one traveler on a cruse ship does not
greatly worry me as things stand now. News is that specific tests
are returning negative -- too many Mai Tai perhaps.
The last five days of an Ebola patients life seems to be the most serious
situation. High viral loads as anything and everything leaks out of the
body and lots of it too.
Wash your hands and stay healthy out there ya all.
I couldn't disagree more. The president gets to make the appointment but congress gets to approve.....or not. You see those republicans were elected as well. This is the division of power I was referring to. The nominee is quite controversial. The fact that he's being blocked is not surprising.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorEthanolic
Interesting read here on the new Ebola Czar
Sources: Klain in line to succeed Podesta - Mike Allen - POLITICO.com
Not so fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDshaver
If the President wants to appoint someone who is truly not qualified that's all well and good however the Republicans have consistently stalled and refused to approve folks for his cabinet over and over again. This is just part of the overall Republican plan to do whatever they can to help Obama fail.
The pres. doesn't need any help failing he's doing fine on his own.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
So, Obama considers himself to be a a very bright guy,A genius,He wants people he can match wits with:)
I wonder why he did not appoint a medical expert instead of a lawyer?
You're right that everybody is elected... but the presidency comes with perks that the congress does not get. Obama won, so he has the right to staff positions as he sees fit. I can understand blocking for gross incompetence, but the GOP congress is blocking over ideology. Ideology is settled during elections, not during the appointment of judges and other positions.Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDshaver
Just a small aside.
The U.S. has had over a 100 appointed "czars" since the early 1930's. Most appointed without any confirmations from the legislature. Seems just a handy catch all spot for politcal
cronyism, a business card, rarely an actual physical office, and little to no effect on the actual problem the czar was appointed to help. The largest number of czars have been appointed by Bush and Obama at around 30 each I believe.
McCain was quoted as saying "Obama has more czars than the Romanov's".
: P
This Obama argument is un-winnable.
It would seem many people are just angry. We just all need to be hip and cool so lets just agree it is:
Bush’s Fault
The Republicans Fault
The President was unaware
All Computer hard drives crash in Government
Benghazi was all over a movie.
Christians, Jews need to get over their beliefs and do what the people that know best say.
Continue to have NASA thank the Arabs for all they did to help so they can feel good.
Fast and Furious was all made up and caused by a couple rouge agents.
The borders are secure as they have ever been.
ISIS is a manageable situation with all the help we have from our Arab friends.
The NSA is not spying on the American people.
The secret service is just misunderstood
The Administration does not want to silence any news source that disagrees
There is no Marine in Mexico our government is not working to free.
It is always a good trade when you get 1 Deserter for 2 Taliban.
There are many improvements in the VA
The Administration is not purging the Generals, Colonels & Majors with War experience.
Solar panes are the way of the future
It is good borrow and print money.
Global warming needs to be our #1 concern.
The constitution is an old out dated document as well as the bill of rights.
It is best to bypass congress every chance you can.
Health insurance cost less now.
The CDC is strong and in charge.
Ebola is completely under control because the federal government is preparing a US Army Task Force to deploy on US Soil.
We need to keep Harry Reid so America stays strong.
The GOP is not good for the socialist state and should be branded illegal.
See its that simple not hard at all, once we can agree on this we can hold hands and sing (Hail to the chief)
You can blame the republicans all you like but its the democratic Senate that he can't get through. Harry Reid changed the rules requiring only 51 votes. The republicans can't block that IF the dems have the stomach to confirm him. The fact of the matter is, everyone knows that this appointment was made to do what could not pass legislatively. His qualifications have also come into question by a former SG who charged that he had “no significant related leadership experience and no formal public health training or experience.” The selection was political and the fact that he hasn't been confirmed by the democratically controlled SENATE is political. And yet the republicans, so far, have had little to do with it. The administrations track record speaks for itself. This is yet another example.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorEthanolic
I'm new to SRP. Is it typical for threads to be committed to off-shaving-topic issues or questions? I do enjoy discussions like this, but I have other sites for that. For me, I come here for shaving and razor talk. I guess I can just avoid the thread.
The forum containing this thread is the 'Conversation' forum. It is defined in the forum menu as, "A forum where Gentlemen of all persuasions, nationalities and backgrounds can come together in harmonious conversation to discuss all matter of civilized subjects in a gentlemanly fashion."Quote:
Originally Posted by Smyth
There are numerous forums on this board that are devoted to shaving and shaving related topics. The only other forum devoted to non shave related topics is the "Finer Things In Life." You are free to access or ignore any forum on this board. The forums are moderated to insure civil discourse, and members may report any infractions to the staff with a couple of mouse clicks. Enjoy your participation here. :chapeau
Thank you. I should have done a little more site-surfing before asking my question. Fair enough. Carry on.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
It has been happening on a large scale since at least the early 90s, with various attempts like the "Clipper Chip" program which would have given the NSA backdoor access to any digital communication. There was a serious ramp-up after 9/11, due to popular support... I do remember that an unspecified "data warehouse" program of the US Govt (probably a direct ancestor of PRISM) was acquiring insane amounts of computer memory between 2001 and 2004. Room 641A and similar operations were operated by the telcos themselves for the NSA, from 2003 onwards (AT&T in the case of 641A), to tap all communications originating from, transiting through or ending in the US. A former NSA director estimated that there are between 10 and 20 similar black rooms in operation in the US, so it's safe to assume that all major telcos are tapped at all time.Quote:
Originally Posted by hidestoart
The information that your government massively spies on you has been out in the open for at least 21 years. The information has been leaked again and again by whistle-blowers but nobody gave a damn until the last round of leaks.
It has probably been happening before that, but I wasn't paying attention to those things then. One could also easily argue that it was already happening in the 50s with the technology available then.
Out of the last 74 years, that has been the US government mode of operations for all but 12 years. It's hard to find yearly statistics going back all the way, but a high-level view would be (inflation-adjusted dollars):Quote:
Originally Posted by hidestoart
1789 to 1849: Cumulative Surplus of $70 million dollars
1850 to 1900: Cumulative Deficit of $991 million dollars
1901 to 1939: 19 years of surplus, 18 years of deficit, 2 years of breaking even. Cumulative Deficit of 36.521 billion dollars.
Basically, short of the first 60 years it's been "borrowing and printing money" all along.
Unfortunately, the solution is unpopular on both sides of the divide: increase tax revenues *and* cut spending.
Happy news - I heard someone recovered from ebola after being treated with something extracted from the bodily fluids of other ebola survivors.
Reminds me of that South Park episode with Magic Johnson on AIDS - the cure for ebola is very large injections.....of cash!
http://southpark.cc.com/clips/164373...-cure-for-aids
James.
:OTQuote:
Originally Posted by MichaelP
Just for some perspective, the years 1850-1900 included the American Civil War. This debacle, and its aftermath must have had a lot to do with that fiscal condition. The 19 years of surplus end with the beginning of WWII. Since then I see no excuse but greed and profligacy ....... of which I can't throw stones ....... seeing the glass house I live in.
Now that I'm done ....... the topic of the OP is Ebola. Please try to confine your remarks to that subject. Feel free to start new threads on side topics that develop. Just don't want the original thread to go further off in tangents of one kind or another . :chapeau
It has probably been studied. However, there are countless strains of such bad germs. They're studied, and then stored away. Vaccine development at significant quantities costs oodles of money. Making medicine even more so. I work for a big pharma company; I know how much it costs. To bring an approved product to market costs hundreds of millions, and about 7 years, assuming that you already have a running plant you can use. There are so many of those bugs, and the risk of such a bug going pandemic is so low that literally noone is going to spend any money on production or even developing ramp-up scenarios.Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter74743
The notion that they can just pick something out of a closet and say 'here it is', is completely wrong. They may have some untested, experimental stuff in very low quantities, that has never gone through human trial. When it's gone, it's gone. That is why only a couple of health workers got it so far. People have been treated with it. There is none to spare. Even to make a raw batch of untested, unvalidated take-at-own-risk vaccine or medicine could take half a year, depending on just how it is made. The stuff we make, takes months. If the product hasn't been made the the processes have been shelved for a while, it could be much longer. Because manufacture of many such treatments rely on biological processes, it is vastly more complex and time consuming than mixing up a batch of aspirin. At this point in time, the handful of survivors donate a lot of plasma because that is the best bet for now. Basically, their bodies produce the antibodies that we'd need for a treatment. And reproducing this process in a bioreactor is very costly, very time consuming to get right, and very difficult. As I said, hundreds of millions and 7 years, which is why there is no commercial stuff nor the resources to ramp up quickly.
Also, while there has been some research into hemorrhagic fevers, all big players have abandoned it for weapons use (except for the ones that have known to be developed at some point in the past, which is why soldiers still get innoculated against smallpox). A fever that would be a great weapon would also be so uncontrollable that you may just end up liquidating your own army or population. Anthrax and other such nasties is where the research is at: things that can be controlled and targeted accurately.
Agree with all this. But a few points - I'm not a fan of the monopolies that pharm companies have here in the US. Take the hep C treatment - it's $20k/pill here, but costs about 1% of that in India because the drug companies don't have a patent monopoly there. Although pharm companies do have to spend money to get the drugs through FDA, there's is MILLIONS to BILLIONS spent in basic research through tax dollars that lead up to that. A big reason that our healthcare costs are so far above the rest of the world's is that we allow patent monopolies on drugs. Also, like you said, ebola is not good for weaponizing. It's not easily spread and the quickness of the lethality makes it unlikely to become very widespread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno