Thanks for bringing a smile to my face early on this Friday morning. :bowQuote:
Originally Posted by DickWhitman
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Thanks for bringing a smile to my face early on this Friday morning. :bowQuote:
Originally Posted by DickWhitman
I think everyone needs to get a grip. How many people are killed in car accidents every year? How many die of influenza? How many die of gunshots? How many die of flesh eating bacteria? The list goes on and on. No one seems to be that concerned about these killers. Yet folks are fixated on something that has killed one person and infected how many?
That is true. OTH if this is just a test run with a minimal number of cases to be processed by the system designed to manage diseases such as Ebola then people have cause to ask questions and be a little worried. Not panic but be concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
Bob
Whether I've tipped my hand or not, I think that my comment about fiscal conservatives not buying into the idea of a dedicated federal hospital is pretty accurate... it's an assessment, not a political statement.
My remarks are indeed negative, but not because I'm saying that, "it can't be done". Rather, my intent was to show what we're up against; remember, I agree with your original premise!
On the other hand,how many tens of thousands have died in Africa from Ebola?granted, Americans really do not care what happens in Africa IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
We have a disease that has no cure and is a plane ride away,It is here as we speke,it needs to be addressed no matter how few have been infected.
I remember 15 yrs ago when MRSA was very rare,Than people started to die from it,Than the CDC got off thier butts and it can now be treated to a point.
In 2001 the NIH was on the verge of creating ebola vaccine,Than the feds pulled the funding,no more research was done.
Today we might have had a Vaccine for Ebola,But what happens in Africa, stays in Africa,Wrong:(
There are two vaccines in trial right now. Human trials. All they need to do is do the testing in low dose up to high dose and make sure that the people taking it produce antibodies and don't get sick (not ebola sick, just sick) from it. The makers say it's impossible to actually get ebola or marburg from it and it has produced antibodies in non-human primates. The low dose group has already started the trial.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
I wonder how much it got fast tracked when ebola suddenly became a first world problem?
There are other vaccines apparently 6 months away, which doesn't help much now. I think GSK is the maker of the vaccine 6 months away. The current trial vaccine is Canadian, but I don't know who is making it.
Some news on the Canadian vaccine 5 things to know about Canada’s experimental Ebola vaccine | Globalnews.ca including the maker.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
I don't think there is any need to wonder if vaccine development got fast tracked because of this outbreak and Ebola in locales other than Africa. I bet my bottom dollar it was.
Bob
Your spot on with your assessment,,,, the fiscal conservatives that you speak of, are politicans, on both sides. My thoughts on politicians, that have gotten us into this mess, are best not expressed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzanda
We're up against a killer that cares not what we feel about ourselves,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
For anyone who's interested, here are the CDC Guidelines for hospitalized Ebola patients
More like 4.5 thousand.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
If we don't care what happens in Africa then why have we had troops deployed there for over 6 yrs in like 50 different outposts? It's called Africom.
I was reading protocols today that are based on these recommendations. One that interested me was the packaging of medical waste suspected of containing Ebola. Soak it with chlorine and put it in a specialized bag. Seal that bag and cover that with chlorine. Put it in another bag with chlorine in it and seal that then cover that bag with chlorine. Put it in a special barrel lined with another bag with absorbant in the bottom to contain all the chlorine etc. that might leak. Then you have to apply for a special permit to transport it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzanda
If you are weird like me and find this interesting. http://phmsa.dot.gov/pv_obj_cache/pv...ance_final.pdf
The "Herd" is easily manipulated with fear and idle talk. This is where we are in this day and age. We have been this way for a very long time but, we have perfected our Herding techniques in this modern age.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
stupid overkill,How can you be sure every MM of material is covered with the solutions.Quote:
Originally Posted by 32t
Double bag it and toss it into a gas fired incenerator,all Hospitals have them
And then what do you do with the gloves you used to handle the bag! LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
Maybe in Kali you have incinerators. I would think there they would have been outlawed long ago.:) Here in Minn there are none that I know of in the hospitals. But I don't know everything!
The average citizen in the West may not care but rest assured Western governments and corporations do care. Western governments are concerned with the huge increase in China's influence in that part of the world and our Western corporations need to make profit in that part of the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by DickWhitman
Bob
Do you have Crematoriums In Minn.? same thing,what do you you think Hospitals do with all the Biopsy samples,amputations,organs etc,Save them??Quote:
Originally Posted by 32t
Of coarse Commerce cares,is all about Money,do you think most in the western world gives a Rats Azz that tens of thousands of children die of starvation in 3rd world countrys?? not on a bet,Maybe it is Gods way of population control.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
But Ebola is here,in the good old US of A,like it or not.
Exactly my point. The average citizen in the West does not care until it is their problem in their backyard. How could you misunderstand what I had said? The USA is not the only country in the West that has had to deal with confirmed Ebola cases recently. Is this a private pity party or can others join in?Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
Bob
Attachment 182091
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No Pity Party on my part,is very simple to me,Ban anyone from coming to the U.S From countrys where Ebola is a problem until it is under control.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
Close our Borders,Deport every Illegal that resides in the U.S,A little radical,thats just the way I think:)
Radical is one word to describe that solution...
I meant incinerators in the hospitals themselves. We do have crematoriums and waste incinerators but they are not on site and there is transportation involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
I don't know the exact protocols but samples, organs, etc. are saved for a certain period of time.
Sounds like a great idea to me. Also... if you leave and go to a country infected, don't come back. This all started from one man lying.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
A great part of the defense for this relies on people telling the truth. Saying I have been there or done that.
A sad comment on human nature but I don't think that will work.
Heard a guy on the radio today ..... an up close and personal medical expert on the disease. Said it has been around 37 years and that what CDC says about not airborne, and not contagious until symptomatic, is true. He said the frontline medicos are the ones who have to worry. That seems to be borne out by the way it has shaken out here. I too believe a no fly from stricken countries would be a sensible approach. Nigeria and at least one other country, can't recall which, that border Liberia/Sierra Leone, have successfully quelled the latest outbreak in their respective countries.
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Originally Posted by pixelfixed
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Originally Posted by Redcane
You guys know that there are no actual flights to the U.S. from those countries, right? Even if there was an "air traffic ban" to the U.S. from those places, people would still find a way to get here from neighboring countries/indirect means.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
I didn't know that. Interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by DickWhitman
Anyone arriving legally in a country, even through connecting flights and not directly, will have their passport scanned. That should tell you where they have been and when. If they have been in the outbreak countries they could immediately be put in 22 day lock down quarantine. If they pass that period symptom free they would be free to enter.Quote:
Originally Posted by DickWhitman
It might be a better way of screening but it is too cumbersome, too costly, will hurt international travel and all the companies that depend on it for profits. Economically not a viable solution from a political view point. Then there are those that will get in illegally and leak through anyway.
There is no foolproof way to contain it. You just have to minimize risk as much as possible for the cases that do happen. You have to learn from mistakes made in the handling of the cases that do get through and rectify the problems quickly.
Bob
I didn't know that. Here again our first line of defense relies on the person telling the truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by DickWhitman
Seems the two nurses that are infected with Ebola have been discharged from the Hospital,They have been transferd to a ship far out in the gulf of mexico:) The plot thickens:(
Where ??? Let me see. Provide a link.......Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
Huh ? Are you referring to this ? ........... Texas Ebola hospital worker is now in quarantine on cruise ship | New York PostQuote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
What about this ? ........... Ebola ruled out as passenger dies on Nigeria flight to JFK | New York Post
No Link,Just saw it on the CBS news,I could be wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by 32t
Not really, just like US citizens keep going to Cuba despite it being forbidden and their passports are not stamped there, infected people with sufficient power/means can bypass a passport control system.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
The only sure way to do it is to have a test with 100% reliability which is administered to every single person without exceptions upon their entry to US. Including diplomats.
But even if such test could be created, the people with sufficient power/means could still bypass its administration.
It really is a political problem.
Well, there is - put that well funded US military to use on the borders of those infected countries or regions. No fly zone and constant bombing of the borders around any infected regions (no boots on the ground). Or just get out those aging ICBMs and incinerate any region where the virus is detected - will also save money in having to deal with their safety issues while they're kept on US soil. That should work quite well.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
On the other end of the spectrum it's very simple again - every american who fears ebola can exercise their 2nd amendment rights and protect themselves from close contact with other human beings and creatures carrying the virus. No government involvement necessary.
Again, the problem is political - different people feel safe with different measures and it's a matter of where the majority falls.
That's nice in theory, however in practice... my wife has a serious issue with her passport. She has no proof that she legally crossed the border into Europe, even tho she has been a legal resident for close to 10 years. On three separate occasions, nobody stamped her passport when she landed. Each time, the first airport she went through didn't do it because it wasn't the destination airport and she'd remain in the international section of the airport... and the destination airport didn't have strict border control as it was an airport with no direct non-EU flights.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
Never underestimate the power of the "not my job" attitude.
Luckily, we moved in Germany from another EU country... otherwise she would have had a lot of "fun" getting the residency card.
Interesting read. Lots of finger pointing and he said she said. First, the cats out of the bag and it needs to be dealt with swiftly. We all know that's not going to happen. I smile because the only way to truly stop it now is to stop all movement of people. No flights, and only local travel in unaffected areas for the next 30 days. Do any of us think that would happen? Here in the US, people would be besides themselves about how it is unconstitutional and they would be right. I know for a fact that some who have posted and want the already infected or exposed people locked up for our safety, would have a huge problem with this if it was them. Is it right for public safety? Probably, but put yourself in their shoes. Were you told what you did was enough, are you uninfected? I believe all these people did their jobs to the best of their abilities and were assured they were safe, why stop your life. Secondly, I think this outbreak was like the terrorist attack in that although we had people and policies in place, it still took us by surprise.
I have very little faith in the US gov. or WHO Both are mired in politics and money and stick to high heaven. What will get this under control is people stepping up to the plate, and doing what needs to be done, just like always. What we need to do is support these people. We need to get them the equipment, training, and medication they need to get this under control.
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Originally Posted by MichaelP
I was not thinking of having a passport stamped at point of entry into a country but having the bar code of your passport scanned at point of entry. I was under the impression passports were now bar coded Help Centre - Frequently Asked Questions - Passport Canada . That would automatically leave an electronic footprint of where you have been and when on subsequent scans. Even that system is flawed because possibly not every country can/does scan passports. Yes, no system is perfect.
Bob
Yes, agreed the problem is political and has little to with how comfortable people feel about the precautions taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by gugi
When I said scanned at point of entry, I meant the bar code on a passport being electronically scanned not the border guard scanning the pages of a passport looking for an actual stamped page. I would not be surprised that whenever a passport's bar code is scanned it creates/adds to a history of where and when it was scanned that is displayed at the time of scanning along with your personal data contained in the bar code.
Bob
Her passport is also chipped, therefore there should be a proof of entry... but still, it only works if somebody actually processes the passport at the border.
Because above else we need their minerals and ores. We don't care what happens to the actual people or which warlord is in charge. We're happy enough to supply weapons so they can kill each other. As long as they do their dying in their own countries and the trucks keep moving, it's 12 o' clock and all's well.Quote:
Originally Posted by DickWhitman
EDIT: I guess it would be more correct to say that we do care about what happens to / in Africa, a lot. We just don't care about the Africans.
