Thread: Massacre at Virginia Tech

One of my co-workers suggested that I must be proud, that Texas is no longer the "worst" (the shootings at the University of Texas). All I could think of was that I couldn't be "sadder" (more sad). My heart, thoughts, tears and prayers go out to all of those effected by this atrocity. Recently, here in Salt Lake City, we had a shooting in which many were killed at Trolley Square, a shopping mall. What a sad state this world has reached.

RT

What really gets to me when these things happen is that some crazed S.O.B. couldn't just end his own life if he thought it wasn't worth living. He just had to go and kill innocent people that hadn't done anything to him. It's as if people like this believe that they're victims; that their lives failed because of a perception that everybody else was persecuting them and they thought this was their only way to fight back against it. It's really sad especially when many of these shooters give warning signs that are fairly obvious to people that know what to look for.

A massacre indeed, and one that saddens and worries me very much! Especially with the warning signs that the teachers saw in his writings... maybe it could have been prevented. I don't even think I can see him as a human being. I have kids and I may be paranoid but I am afraid for them

I understand he was mad at "rich kids" - and the decay of morals...

I am not sure if he suffered from these, and it is possible that he did. We'll never know, unfortunately. This certainly does not justify what he did.

It just baffles me what can drive a person to do such a thing
Ivo

I heard on the radio the other day that the school knew he had problems and was a risk already, but due to certain civil-rights litigation from the past the schools have no power to expel him from school unless he has already committed a crime or been ordered by a court(?-think that's what they said) to resident mental care, regardless of the risk they presume him to be. So the school HAD to let him keep coming, even after knowing he was dangerous, for fear of violating his civil rights....which, incidentally....he is/was not a citizen, which opens other questions, but still.
Figures.
John P.

Originally Posted by izlat

A massacre indeed, and one that saddens and worries me very much! Especially with the warning signs that the teachers saw in his writings... maybe it could have been prevented. I don't even think I can see him as a human being. I have kids and I may be paranoid but I am afraid for them

I understand he was mad at "rich kids" - and the decay of morals...

I am not sure if he suffered from these, and it is possible that he did. We'll never know, unfortunately. This certainly does not justify what he did.

It just baffles me what can drive a person to do such a thing
Ivo

This is a touchy subject so I'll tread carefully.

From the footage that was aired yesterday, it is obvious that he was a severely disturbed person, but we don't yet know how he ended up like that.

Just to play the devil's advocate: it is entirely possible that he has been picked on by his peers. that, together with existing problems could have been enough to break him.
I agree that what he did is horrible, but perhaps not beyond understanding how he ended up like that.
Combine anger for always being picked on and not fitting in with a feeling of defeat and hopelessness, and this is what happens every time. Maybe without the anger he'd simply have killed himself.

People who have never been bullied and picked on usually cannot understand the impact that has on a persons reasoning and mental state.

Belgium's most famous lawyer Jef Vermassen (who is also widely respected despite always trying murder cases) wrote a book 'murderers and their motives' based on 20 years of study of different murder cases.
It was sold out before it hit the stores. I managed to get a 3d print.
Jef was once scolded by the public attorney that normal people do not kill, and that he'd never have done what the defendant did.
A couple of years later, HE was the defendant in a murder case.

If you think that it is impossible for you to end up like that, think again. There is a murderer inside everyone.

But what amazes me is that a mentally unsound person like him was able to buy 2 handguns.

Originally Posted by Bruno

But what amazes me is that a mentally unsound person like him was able to buy 2 handguns.

There is a background check that all gun sellers (legal) do to check on a person's background. This guy had been ordered by a judge to get mental help as he was a danger to himself and others -----I don't know if this should have been posted so the gun seller would know ---

The bureacracy of government and educational systems always tends to drop the ball and information is rarely exchanged efficiently --- maybe that happened here (wouldn't surprise me).

To me, the guy could of chosen to use a gun, a car, a bomb, whatever to do what he did --- that's the end game but he fell through the cracks for years and nothing was done. He was stalking girls, teachers made note of him to administrators, he was deemed a threat to himself and others by a judge, --but nothing was done.

I think you need to ask yourself what has changed in American society over the last fifty years or so. (1) Gun ownership ? --- no --- guns have always been around and it use to be easier to obtain legally than now (2)family life (?) --- yeah there's been considerable loss there --- fathers not around, lack of respect for the traditional family, lack of respect in general (3) violence in culture? -- yeah --- too much of it I think --- from video games to Hollywood (4) work ethic, sense of entitlement; ? -- yeap --- to me most young Americans think they are owed everything and have a sense of immediate entitlement ---- if someone else has it better than you then it's their fault not yours - anything else ? -- I don't know if anything can describe why this guy would murder 32 people --- but he did fall through the cracks.

On the gun thing, the vast majority of crimes are committed by illegaly obtained firearms. There are no background checks for these and if an individual wants a weapon then he can get it --- just like you can get drugs easy in the U.S. no matter how regulated and illegal they are. The authorities can't even stop drug and illegal transactions within a high security jail ---- for most things regulation is a pipe dream that hurts good citizens who obey the law and promotes and gives power to the criminals who never will. Moreover, it always amazes me how the most visible people who want to regulate guns ( high society liberals and Hollywood types) are the same people who promote things in movies and society that lead to a crumbling of the traditional family and basic societal well being.


Justin

Originally Posted by jaegerhund

... Moreover, it always amazes me how the most visible people who want to regulate guns ( high society liberals and Hollywood types) are the same people who promote things in movies and society that lead to a crumbling of the traditional family and basic societal well being.


Justin

Interesting insight, Justin, and food for thought.

-Lou

The first question that I and several of my colleagues asked when all of this happened was why didn't somebody tackle this kid and beat him dead? I do not blame these kids, and who are we to arm chair quarterback here - but this guy is said to have fired over a hundred times - and the best that anyone could do was to block a door?

It is easy for me to have said that I would have braved the hail the bullets and climbed up this guy and beat him with the bloody stump of his own arm, but truly what was going on here?

The sense of entitlement that Jason was talking about is also a very ironic innate trust that someone will take care of us, that it is the policeman's job to protect us, the governments job to make sure that we are safe - and in a social contract sort of way, it is - but in reality we are all on our own here. We should not and cannot expect anyone in authority to do anything for us - weird thing is that the vast majority of Americans have (since Nam at least) a deep mistrust of the authorities and take them to task every chance we get. But we still remain and are becoming a nation of "sheeple", unable or afraid to take matters into our own hands when it seems the right thing to do because we have been programmed that it is just not right, politically correct or polite. We believe that the villain at the door will go away if we hide, will just leave - be it a shooter or global warming - that someone else will take care of it. It just isn't going to happen.

This reminds me of a recent incident down here in Texas (Burleson I believe) - a school district that hired a safety expert who came in and was teaching kids in a secondary school to *resist* if a gun man came in and tried to hurt any of them - he was teaching them what to do, to throw things, to fight back...the school board received complaints and fired him - it was all over the news. But I tell you this, I am going to teach my daughter to fight, my only beautiful child and the second most graceful woman in my life at 9 months old, to fight with every fiber of her soul and every weapon at her disposal - to control her own fate, and not leave her life and my grace in the hands of any demented, tortured and lesser being.

I saw the tv news article with the father of the lovely young woman who lived modern dance, and was killed - and I died a little with every picture and held back tear. I mourn their lost youth and my own. Spes Es Vigilante Somnium = Hope is the Dream of the Vigilant.

K